Let’s just say it’s not blinding.
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I think you misunderstand the concept of what happened to Jesus on the cross. Neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit blocked themselbes from Jesus as Christ was dying…that is wrong. In fact, the opposite is true, they were as close to the Son as they had ever been throughout his life as a human being on earth.
What in reality happened, and this is explained throughout the bible, is that the consequences of taking all of the sins of the world upon himself were such that it was sin that blocked Jesus from being able to feel and see the Father and the Holy Spirit. Sin clouded the bond between them such that Jesus honestly thought that his Father had forsaken Him.
Just thought it very important that I correct the theological error in your post here as its important that you understand this fundamental about Christianity. We are all separated from the Father because of sin…what it did to Jesus it has done to all of us.
Also, another concept i have read that is in error…scapegoat.
The bible Sanctuary Service very clearly outlines what the role of the scapegoat is. The priest comes out of the tabernacle after the cleansing ritual and places his hands onto the scapegoat. This goat is then released into the wilderness to wander aimlessly…it is cast out.
The point of the scapegoat is to illustrate to the Israelites that ultimately, Satan will receive the responsibility for all humanity’s sins…he will then be cast out into the wilderness. This is a metaphor really…generally the scapegoat historically was expected to die. There is evidence to suggest it was thrown off a cliff by the Levites actually. Either way, the point is, the scapegoat in the wilderness without any support or safety of the camp will die. That is what will happen to the devil also after the judgement (as explained in the book of Revelation)
Really? I saw you put on your sunglasses!
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My photo gray Transitions lenses don’t react quickly enough.
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@Dale how come you think Jesus failed some people after risen?
@bharatjj can you tell me more about how Abraham “made God” through our collective consciousness for all of humanity?
[/quote]
to a mother to a physical deaf daughter:
About Jesus. a scene that people thought maybe that’s what my mom was doing when I told them.
mom had me on her lap, placed her hand on my chest, and form her lips she said “friend” I told that scene mom told me, and people thought was your mom seeking to get you to accept Jesus?
My answer was, I don’t know., all I know is mom said the word ‘friend’ later in a Christian online fb group I asked, and the Christians said, no I’m not a Christian, and so that given me the answer, cause I didn’t know.,
Due to stories my mom told me I was 3 years old physically deaf, I thought I was connecting with you @Dale with our Kidney stories, I had mistaken, I was near death from neglect bleeding to death from Kidney infection, that’s another scene that mom told me - even though I seen light - this is why I call light my friend, light God who lives in me. I can physical hear now (challenge how to explain my life when it seems I lived so many types of lives.)
I am a survivor from physical neglect and abuse, almost died at age 3, is it then I met light (I don’t know)
Because as @Bill_II explain
@Dale I really like what @Vinnie wrote. I think V
I borrowed word air. At this moment you completely don’t understand me so now ask me to explain.
Keep in mind I’m learning so I don’t have the full understanding nor have I really pay much attention in this area about air that people use word angel. Maybe I could explain this, that angels are the spiritual air,
Later I borrow word pull. Spiritual air (pull) earth spiritual air pull is pulling to block light, so to allow light it’s work through the earth spiritual air pull, yet when allowing light in us teach us how and (not fighting pull) but in the midst of pull, allow light in us teach us how, light uses all of it to teach, as well as allow more light with in the pull of the blocking, and as light flows, this is the area I’m learning mostly about light in me.,
This is where I’m confused about chakras or that @bharatjj would explain to me about 7 chakras, even though I’ve felt in other chakras, I still understand it’s the heart chakras where I feed from light, yet @bharatjj claims it’s the whole spine area we feed from (I forgot Bharat’s word he uses) so I’ll use word light. @bharatjj claims I need to spread the heart chakra more and not let it pile up due to burn fire, however I differ as I associate that as feeding my spirit, burn fire is spiritual food., how come I want more fire burn in heart chakra while @bharatjj claims spread to other chakra. other chakra sensations even though I know of, isn’t spiritual food, this area maybe @bharatjj and I maybe disagreeing or maybe I’m wrong., but when I’d had other chakras it’s - ok here let me explain this this will help me better and actual scene
white light that I see doesn’t do it for me, so seeing doesn’t do it for me, and white light explain this by proving it, by not feeding in spirit heart and only have me see white light only and that’s empty, so i understood then, so it’s actual burnfire in spirit heart that is spiritual food., so how come that lesson I had? But then @bharatjj claims getting fed all spine. that’s the other area is I don’t feel in actual spine area.
How I go at, is ok I rock, I rock even as a baby; I go to light in me, I don’t do that breath stuff, that I read online about, I don’t like doing that stuff. Its fine that others do, but I don’t like focus on breathing., so I never do that. I also don’t meditate, no chants, I don’t try anything, but due to my physical body craves to rock, I rock in order to take away physical cravings,
I go to light as a relationship; a friend., I could relate with
I want light and feed from light as that extremely takes care of spiritual hunger, and so that’s what I allow light teach me how to feed from light in all my situations
That’s the area where I’m at, as I struggle in areas in situations in allowing to feed from light, so I continue learning from light how
Earth is more I’m borrowing word demon, demon spiritual air - wants us to echo from demon spiritual air, it’s not light at all, it’s demons and it’s empty, can’t feed spirit, yes one can experience but it’s not the same as feeding from light.
Maybe there’s people who only experience demon spiritual air and want more of, but it’s empty of lacking of purpose
This is another area I learn is purpose is light and full of actual purpose when drinking from light who lives in all of us
I feed from spirit heart fire burn from light in me
Challenge writing here: I never get rid of all together demon spiritual air instead it’s in the midst I allow light in me teach me how to allow me drink from light in the midst of demon spiritual air.
This area I never understand when Christians claims they get rid of demons, as if demons are all gone
When we leave this physical body and go to light then Angel spiritual air is actually feeding from light and the spiritual air pulls us to to drink from light so that’s why I claim it’s easier to drink from light
Maybe I could use the word pull. So when on earth in our physical bodies the demon spiritual air pulls us to not drink from light, but to try to be spiritual head,
you see I’m not spiritual head, but of spiritual body, this is where I actually relate with Christians when they say
we’re of Christ body, I would relate with this and then I could say that God is our spiritual head.
Sadly it sounds like I’m saying caste system and I’m not
It’s not a caste system, it’s a spiritual body we’re all in - all of us.
Now this forum - some Christians here claims Jesus is the only way to God. I would love it if an universal Christian would be here because I would love to hear from an universal Christian as I think they understand that all our saved already. This includes those who reject Jesus. So people who rejects Jesus are saved too, this is my understanding what universal Christians believes. If I understand correctly.
Now @bharatjj was using words messiah so Jesus messiah and there’s other messiahs so that would be extremely interesting what an universal Christian thinks about other messiahs
That is not an answer to my question, and to answer yours, I don’t and he didn’t.
I haven’t got time now for all the rest of that.
If you think Jesus failed in any way, it isn’t the Holy Spirit that’s been teaching you in your situations.
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You @Dale think Jesus failed because you @Dale think people are going to permanent hell. Jesus rose so people will go to permanent hell to me means that type of Christianity excludes some. And I’m not into that. I would love to hear an universal salvation Christian about this., I’m sure Jesus hadn’t fail no one. I hope this make sense
You really shouldn’t be telling me what I think. It is obviously you who think Jesus failed, not me! And you have reached a mistaken conclusion – there are others. It doesn’t matter “what you are into”, what matters is what is true.
I have said elsewhere and maybe you weren’t paying attention, but I am open to the interpretation from the Bible called conditional immortality, aka annihilationism.
You might also see if you can understand this and what it says about God’s justice: skeptical theism.
You @Dale been telling me how I think as you @Dale kept telling me I go to false God
I understand we all live forever. Unconditional love has no conditions and unconditional love lives in all of us
People created laws
My understanding is not all Christians thinks like you. There’s universal salvation Christians who understand that all are saved. So how universal salvation Christians would understand Jesus didn’t fail anyone, due to all are saved, no need to add to what this Jesus messiah did. I wish there was an universal salvation Christian who can let me know if I’m understanding this correctly how universal salvation Christians thinks?
If any Christians thinks some aren’t saved then how come those Christians don’t kill sheep for those who’s not saved., that’s what the Jews did is kill sheep for sin
To any Christian who thinks not all saved, due to these Christians thinks Jesus failed those, then return back to what Jews did and kill sheep for those you think are going to 'what ever type of hell or annihilationism, Well go kill sheep then, drain the blood to wash away sins for those that Jesus fail to save., according to Christians thinking who they think isn’t saved., these Christians also can get extra freezers to pack all that meat too, to eat, cause I’m sure those Christians will think there’s a lot of people not saved due to Jesus failure to save them so you’ll need to buy extra freezers to pack up that meat to eat from all the animals you’ll be draining blood from, but don’t break any bones, from those animals., that should take care of that problem, according to Christian thinking. Jesus saved those and drainage of blood of animals will save the rest of the people.
Drain the blood from sheep., and don’t break any of the sheep bones., that’s what Jews did before Jesus correct? That solved the problem of sin correct?
Once again you @Dale thinks Jesus failed if you understand annihilationism (əˌnaɪɪˈleɪʃənɪzəm) n the teaching or principle that trespassers and evildoers are completely destroyed rather than made to suffer in hell after death
@Dale to anyone you think that annihilationism will happen to, then you @Dale thinks Jesus had fail them, so how about go kill sheep for these people
Before Jesus Jews killed sheep
So according to your thinking @Dale the people you think @Dale are saved due to what Jesus did, and the people you @Dale think of those not saved, then go kill sheep for those people then
What do Jews do now about sin, they still kill animals drain blood from animals to wash away sins, well there you go, to anyone you @Dale think will either go to hell or annihilationism will happen to them., it’s time to drain blood from animals for these people because one needs to add to areas Jesus had failed, according to your @Dale thinking
This message has a lot of repeating. So I’m failing at deleting words
universal salvation Christians thinks all are saved
other types of christians thinks only some are saved, then go kill sheep to anyone you think isn’t saved.,
I understand people created laws
I didn’t know about this that you wrote
I always associated spiritual air pull.
I think what happened with me is I known of God before knowing of religion.
I don’t mind people being with their religions what I don’t like is when people are excluded from God.
I never found that that anyone is excluded from unconditional love God that needs no conditions. I understand about relationship with God. Also that Devil spiritual air, works for God. So won’t be separated from God. The devil or Satan, isn’t separated from God. So Satan and Devil are already saved too by Jesus blood then, according to universalist Christians. Because like @Klax said, something of
Well nothing is below Jewish feet. Because if so then that area Jesus failed at then. Was Jesus completed or not completed?
I went to God just as I am and I learn from God how to allow God more in my situations, I actually went to God for protection as the abuse continued, I always thought people would debate how come God didn’t make it stop., but I actually went to God for protection, can you believe that, but I didn’t have all this education how to go to God, I just go to God just as I am, for God is my home and protection, a place I can go to to hide.
@Dale @Terry_Sampson @adamjedgar @Klax @bharatjj @mitchellmckain
Here’s an example: A Christian is worried that their salvation didn’t take
I don’t have this fear. For I know God who lives me already accepts me. I understand through relationship as God is my best friend. I don’t have to be anything or do anything, I can be me just as I am. No performance needed. No seeking approval. I can go to God and allow God teach me in the midst of my situations, about how to allow more, so can experience God more in situations
Here is a thread: Yet another discussion of universal salvation
I yet need to read through this thread.
The purpose of showing this is universalist Christians includes all that everyone is saved.
@bharatjj and I believe in reincarnation
I don’t understand this idea why only one time on earth, all for what? What’s the purpose - one time on earth that Christians believe?
I’m relief to know that there’s Christians who includes all in their understanding of spirituality and salvation, understanding that all are saved.
Are there any universalist Christians in this forum, who would be interested to share their understandings here?
@Klax are you an universalist believing all are saved?
I notice you’re the one who started the Yet another discussion of universal salvation
@bharatjj are you an universalist
I’m one who isn’t particularly bothered by that label, though I don’t throw it around a lot since I know it raises hackles for many. And I’ll tell you up front that I remain agnostic about the whole “future of Satan” thing since we barely know who or what all that is anyway (and have our hands full just understanding our own salvation much less any alleged salvation of things we don’t even understand the nature of.) I don’t believe evil can be at rest in Christ’s presence so that would mean that nothing of evil or those clinging to evil while they still cling to it, can be at home in Christ’s presence.
With all that caveat in place, yes - I find reassurance in the conviction that every knee will bow and every tongue confess Christ as Lord - and I dont make a mockery of that conviction (or of God) by attributing any cruelty or coercion of any parties toward that outcome. I.e. One does not “confess Christ as Lord” because such a “lord” threatens them with continued torture otherwise. Perish the thought! And (as George MacDonald has said) - pity those whose theologies have turned their god into such a demonic monster such as to make the most despicable of men be righteous in comparison. Their punishment is that they should believe in such a god.
All of us will be new creations, reconciled fully with God and with each other in such profound ways as our imaginations can barely even reach now - we barely even dare to want it. That is the blessed hope that Christ died and lives for - for us. All of us, after we are cleansed from our sins and sinful desires.
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Apparently skeptical theism didn’t make a dent or was beyond your comprehension. Maybe you didn’t bother to look up annihilationism or conditional immortality either. Jesus has only failed in your limited understanding of who and what he is.
I was reminded of this today, about your experiences with ‘light’ (and with which I can in no way relate) which are devoid of content as far as you have communicated (true teaching is not devoid of content):
Yes, this, unless you ignore your sinfulness:
None of what I wrote is any attempt toward ‘theodicy’ or an explanation of suffering and/or evil that we experience in our present lives. Everything of what I wrote is in regard to the hope of what will be when all the present form of the world is passed away. I don’t remember if I ever read the site you link at some time in the past, but glancing at it now, I don’t see anything in there that is at odds with what I wrote - granted I didn’t read through it all just now. So if you have some particular thought from that site, that you think doesn’t mesh with what I wrote above, please share that particular thought. I make no pretensions (here anyway) that I understand the role of all suffering here and now or how to understand God’s hand in it or allowance of it.
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Something else we have in common then.
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Anyone who has bad anxiety has not read their Bible well and is maybe focusing too much on themselves? What we pay attention to is a continuous moral decision that we make, and if we are watching the stormy waters or not looking to or fixing our eyes on Jesus for our temporal and eternal security, we are paying attention to the wrong things.
Whenever I catch myself being anxious, especially when I am trying to go to sleep, singing this to myself this helps a lot:
(How’s your Portuguese? https://youtu.be/iUHndLGc_S4 ; - )
@Mervin_Bitikofer thank you for letting me know you’re an universalist Christian
(HACKLES)
erectile hairs along the back of a dog or other animal that rise when it is angry or alarmed:
I think that’s what happen is as I shared. It hackled many, due my thinking was different then there’s.
For months @Dale has been explaining the light in me is false. Also I even went so far to use Christian language and then called light Holy Spirit and @Dale will ask, “how do you know that’s the Holy Spirit?”
My mistake was trying to prove, that God who lives in me, is my best friend. I shouldn’t of been trying to prove to anyone.
Examples @Dale telling me the light in me is false and how do I know if that’s the Holy Spirit? I think this been going on for months.
Here I was explaining about Inner ‘I’ we all carry that I learn from a Jew. I shared some art too
I think my mistake is, I tried to prove that God who lives in me is my best friend.
Now I learn you keep your beliefs a secret due to it’ll hackle many., well I think I understand, as I hackled many. My mistake is I wanted them to know that God who lives in me is really my best friend.
I think from now on I’m not going to try to prove anything. That’s what I learn from this
Sometimes I use uncommon words, and I should be careful about doing that with you. I want to help you recognize good common English usage, and not pick up too many bad habits from me while you do so.
Rather than use the word “hackles”, let me rephrase it this way: I am careful with my language so that I don’t offend people when I didn’t need to. There are some beliefs that may not be important enough to create unneeded offense. But there may be some situations (like when you are distressed and disturbed by these very beliefs) that I think it good and important to show that you need not be so distressed over some of these allegedly scriptural understandings. Many faithful people in history have understood scriptures well enough to see quite a different picture of God than what some Christians today may teach that causes distress for so many. Since you ask, I share.
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