I have been thinking about this since reading John H. Walton’s second book in the Lost World series, “The Lord World of Adam and Eve.” And in Proposition 14 is goes into how the serpent of Gen 3 is seen as a chaos creature that is from the non-ordered and brings out disorder. Now I know this entity really to our knowledge has no name as Devil, Satan (both of which mean adversary/opponent) and even Lucifer (which means the morning star) are names we have given this entity of evil and chaos. Thus I ask, should we see Satan as not only a fallen angel but also as a chaos creature that promotes disorder and evil in God’s creation?
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The devil is a scapegoat. A creature given power by our attempts to evade responsibility. There is no power in evil but that which is granted by our own self-deception, fear, and delusions.
What we learn from the science of chaos is that chaos and order are necessary ends of a spectrum which makes life possible. Either by itself is death, and only in the balance can there be the self-organization which is the essence of life.
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I won’t deny that the Devil is in a sense a self-reflection of our sinful nature when we act independent from God. And yes at times we give Satan more credit then he deserves (that is if he deserves any at all lol) and a lot of out issues are our own fault within our own sinful selfish nature, which was no different from that fallen being when he tried to claim to be God and take it all for himself.
Satan (in the Hebrew Bible) is a servant of God, who tests the resolve of the faithful (Book of Job, also compare 2 Samuel 24:1 to 1 Chronicles 21:1) rather than an opponent of created order. The title ‘adversary’ does not imply he is the adversary of God, but of man’s good inclination. The Angel of the Lord is described as an adversary in Numbers 22:22.
In the NT it is definitely true that Satan is a chaoskampf creature, what with him being a seven headed dragon in Revelations 12:9, a description which hearkens back to Ancient Near Eastern descriptions of chaoskampf creatures.
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What would you think if a man learned that there was a child eating monster in the neighborhood and so he decided to have some children so that he could feed the bad children to the monster and so the good children would be ever so grateful and praise their father forever?
If that sounds ok to you then the only thing I am grateful for is that you were not one of my parents.
Otherwise, perhaps you can see from this what is wrong with some of the ideas we see in Christianity which has the devil coming from a rebellious angel. If such were the case then it seems to me that a God with any sort of decency would be expected to get his own house in order before bringing children into it. Thus the fall of man only makes sense to me if that was the origin of evil itself – that it came from Adam & Eve who were the children of God.
I think the archangel Lucifer was doing His job to challenge living things in the world so that they could learn and grow. But Adam and Eve chose to pass the responsibility for the fall to him and with the responsibility comes power and with blame comes enmity. Thus Lucifer was assigned to a new task, the devil – an embodiment of evil to be sure, but ultimately a scapegoat, which is why he is so often portrayed with goatlike features.
So, from what I’m getting from you is that Satan isn’t a rouge agent of pure evil who rebelled against the LORD for sinful and selfish purposes but a figure acting in accord with God’s divine providence and plan? That to me seem’s to be the mindset that the Jews had when in view of The Satan in Job for example. And I won’t deny that God does use “evil spirits” within the OT to get his purposes done, but I suggest these creatures are rouge entities that still have to submit to their Creator an from my understanding in Rev. 5:13. That these entities know that God is God.
Dear Quinn,
Have you every met anyone who was highly intelligent and lacked any sense of reason? They are totally chaotic, and always generating new, senseless ideas. When Jesus conquered Satan on Easter Sunday, had he any reason in his being, he would have given up. Yet he did not. He clings to his kingdom, knowing he was defeated by the King of Heaven and that he has no power to keep his followers from leaving.
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Yes. I think everything in the curse of Genesis 3:14-19, were consequences of the fall and for the purpose of restoration. This includes Lucifer becoming the adversary, i.e. Satan.
My suggestion is that like many things in the universe, their existence serves God’s providential purpose, but that doesn’t mean that everything they do is the will of God.
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I can see that point of view. Also I hopefully plan to get this book by Christmas and read it which may help me answer a lot of question I have still about demon and Satan.
https://www.amazon.com/Demons-Spirits-Biblical-Theology-Cultural-ebook/dp/B07VL6HQKY/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid&sr
Also @mitchellmckain today I was reading in Mark 5:1-13 about Legion and how the demon(s) came and bowed down before Him. The talk with the two in Mark 5:6-12 was interesting to me. Espically Mark 5:7 which says, “and shouting with a loud voice, he said, “What business do we have with each other, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I implore You by God, do not torment me!””
The famous quote that instantly comes to mind is; “The greatest trick the devil pulled off, was convincing everyone that he doesn’t exist”. Many of my friends, some faithful Christians don’t believe in the devil’s existence, or hell for that matter! I believe that is a major oversight, or underestimation of the Truth.
As for hell itself? I think Jesus was quite clear in His descriptions. “…enter the narrow gate.”
Jesus had His go-round w/ the “master of iniquity”, several times. One of my favorite quotes is; Luke 10:18. “I saw satan fall like lightning from heaven.” Why this quote, if not for the biggest case for Lucifer’s fall from Grace? And fall to the earth, as Jesus’ “Tempter”; Satan offering the “world” in exchange for homage to him. Why homage? Satan wants what is God’s. As always!
The Gospel to me, is the true indicator for the reality of satan. Rather than just being the personification of evil. I do believe that satan has no power unless we give it to him, personally. But to say he is without power is wrong. There are many, many willing to hand everything to him, and do! And “free will” is a guarantee that we will be subject to collateral damage. Prayer and fasting limits our exposure to that damage.
And, Jesus, referenced several names: Satan “adversary”, Devil “slanderer.”; The evil one, Enemy, Liar, Father of lies, Murderer, Ruler of this world.
I think it’s safe to say, satan exists as an entity. And as the “enemy” of God, and us. God “allows” satan to rule this world. But, he has no power over us but persuasion. And our only hope in combating him is; humility and the Most Holy Name and Words of Jesus. Amen
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By calling the devil a scapegoat, I do not intend to support any sympathy for the devil whatsoever. He may just be a servant given that role, but his whole purpose is to clarify our own choices, separating good from evil so we can more clearly see the goodness of God. We cannot have any sympathy for the embodiment of evil regardless of how that came about – and that is ultimately down to us anyway, the same as our sin. The point is to reject the evil and sin within us and the devil as the external embodiment of that.
- I agree with you so then can grow through adversary., you agree? However, I don’t think there’s actually a name called Satan. What do you think?
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I don’t understand. Can you help me understand ‘good inclination’ English Language Learners Definition of inclination. : a feeling of wanting to do something
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What is an Angel?
here are my views old Lucy/ lucifer / dev / devil boy / devil girl my thoughts are the character is or was very misguided angry yes most likely had issues such as jealousy, envy, and pride however one has to wonder how old was this character lucifer was he half human /and angel as well ? because at one time it was said that the devil is the lesser star as he was not the true light and could never display this to the world .Why Are Both Jesus and Satan Referred to as the Morning Star? over the years i don’t know how it has come to change because some say today that all men are the devil they all cheat steal and lie and they all tend to put themselves above god but there are a few woman who do the same in fact their are even lost souls who have given up hope even to this day there are still some who see ministers and governments as being sheeps in wolfs clothing
i can an angel is a being that one does not always see it is similar to the holy spirit these spirits orr angels you can tell the difference because they allow the true light to shione upon them vs a human or a dark spirit or lost soul they have not yet felt that true light so therefore they need that spiritual help and guidence but the whole problem is they have not looked for jesus hard enough within themselves that is my guess because it was said in the bible that jesus was the way the truth and the life others doctrines say the light i am reading the other part as i am not familiar with it either lol as i have never read about no angels being advesaryies
i think i see what you are saying so yes techniqully the angel that stood in thee road was not an adversary to GOD but to the people that were being cruel to the donkey at least thats what i am reading and if i were in gods shoes i would do the same i would not stand silent and allow people to continue to harm others
I read the article you shared. Interesting that Jesus and Satan is morning star., I still not sure what morning star is though.
I’ve seen white light in people radiate outward while still light in people., my understanding is we allow or block light
I understand more about growing in adversary, which there’s times I don’t grow in adversary but I (not sure word) but eventually I allow light in me teach me in the midst of adversary and allow myself to grow from light in me as there’s adversary that I’m going through.
There’s times when there’s adversary and I’ll get angry and not grow, so it can get very dark for me, and so eventually I’ll allow light in me teach me and accept for me to grow through adversary
I am not sure what that means using word morning star.
Oh also this light feeds the spirit heart fire burn
This light is fire and water at the same time
I’m not sure how Christians came to a being name Satan vs how Hebrews has adversary
So what do you think an angel is., compare to human
I have a lot of week areas in spirituality, I think the areas I keep learning is how to allow Holy Spirit light in me teach me in the midst of my situations
But having satan and Jesus as morning star, well
light as I understand this as the Holy Spirit who lives in us, the Holy Spirit can’t be separated from us, so if Jesus blocked Holy Spirit light, this doesn’t make sense as far as dying on cross
to will from God to block Holy Spirit in order to have Jesus to do on our behalf, to do what, my question is more what is this court case?
I don’t comprehend blocking light as a separation from God, as Holy Spirit light still lives in us, however what does happen when blocking light is our spirit gets spiritually hungry
only Holy Spirit light can feed our spirit so our spirit isn’t spiritually hungry
So this doesn’t make sense why God would force Jesus blocking light,
and by Jesus never blocking light., before cross, yet then while on cross blocking light due to God’s will in order for Jesus to do for us
then Jesus rises for us to have spiritual life, yet spiritual life is already in us before Jesus went to cross
What is cross from Romans, how much had Romans changed Hebrews laws? 613 laws is a lot of laws
I still don’t understand how love can be a law, what about unconditional love?
Why have 613 laws to show what? A cross in order to block light that’s in Jesus, to do what with 613 laws for?
why laws in comparing to light in us?
There’s no condemnation in Christ, yet I watch many add to the cross, example, needing to accept, that’s adding to the cross., then it’s how well a person can accept, that’s a performance and subjective
if there’s no condemnation in Christ that means no one is condemn and that includes people who rejects Jesus
also adversary works for God, I still don’t comprehend being though as Satan, how does Satan be everywhere?
Holy Spirit lives in all of us, due to Holy Spirit is our spiritual head, but what is satan, can’t be everywhere as a being,
I understand angels as spiritual air,
however as humans are responders, the spiritual air closer to earth makes it more difficult to allow light
further away from earth and closer to light the air is more - I don’t know how to word this - echo
ok spiritual air echo as we’re the responders, and the echo that’s closer to the light will aid us also to respond to light, compare to here on earth, the echo - it’s like the echo closer to earth seems to feed on the echo, that’s more the adversary, that’s why it’s so difficult to allow light,
see but it’s the spiritual air though, not an one being
however when allowing light it’s as if resisting through the echo spiritual air vs away from earth and closer to the light the echo echo’s the light that we’ll respond to that aids us to drink from light
Can you relate with any of this?
Ok so what is morning star as Jesus and Satan is
Nor have you said anything about any ‘teachings’ content. Please shed some light on those questions.
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What? You can’t see her light from where you’re sitting?
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