Witchcraft and sorcery is Biblically evidenced, but does it still occur in current times and is quantum physics a component?

Troy,

Nice to meet you.

You asked: “Do you subscribe to an Ennochian Theology?”

No. Also, I am careful of labels and titles. I am a bit of an unusual/eccentric person and I don’t really fit into any preconceived notion.

I have already posted some of what I believe in this thread, including that chart, etc. However, I will elaborate more, because it probably isn’t entirely clear (and thanks for the opportunity).

Anything I am inclined to believe, I contemplate and cross-reference with the Bible. The Bible is the living, breathing word of God. I like the Geneva version. I study the Bible daily.

From a very young age, I have had unusual dreams (involving lucidity) and experiences - In this thread, I previously posted about a couple of experiences including (not in too much detail) the alien abduction experience I had when I was 5 years old, etc. Psychology Today did a great writeup on how one cannot discount or dismiss the possibility that these accounts of abductions occurred and that the universe is a grand place where the possibility may well exist. Considering the fairly recent disclosure of UAP (unidentified aerial phenomenon) and related government information becoming declassified, I feel less self-conscious about sharing my experiences on such a platform. For many years, I have researched and tried to find answers to the things I have experienced. I have researched and experimented with many different kinds of religions and esoteric philosophies. Thankfully, I have arrived to the Truth, the kind of Truth that does not change of shift depending on the lighting in the room, so to speak. Jesus Christ is the Truth and the word of God (i.e. the Bible) is living and breathing.

As I previously stated, There is a large-scale agenda to distort Truth. In addition, I have reason to believe that movies like John Carpenter’s They Live and La Planète Sauvage (or Fantastic Planet, 1973) contain **some elements of truth conveyed in an artistically playful way.

I previously described the distinction between witchcraft and prayer in this thread (and would like to avoid being redundant). Furthermore, I do not practice nor do I believe in practicing witchcraft. Jesus was not practicing sorcery when He multiplied the fish and bread - He is God and God can do as He pleases as he is original energy, it’s His original energy to use. God is inherently good as well. If a human did a healing on another person via the power of the Holy Spirit, that would *not be witchcraft. If a person did a healing on an individual and attributed that healing to themselves or some other false deity, that would be witchcraft. The main distinction is submission to the will of God vs “self-governing” control.

I cross-reference my philosophies with the word of God and have spent time developing my philosophies accordingly as per the leading of God via the Holy Spirit within me.

I think that there is a common misconception that the church is a place. No, the true church is a people. 2 Corinthians 6:16, “What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.” In fact, when Jesus died, the Temple veil was torn from the top down, Matthew 27:51. The tearing of the veil also symbolized the fact that the new temple was to be within man. In the Old Testament, the Holy Spirit came “upon” people. After the death of Christ, the Holy Spirit “dwelt within” people. The Holy Spirit resides in me, this makes me the temple of God. No, this does not mean that I think that I am God or have the slightest interest in “manifesting” my reality. I am submitted to God. I think of it like this: I am blindfolded and dancing with God, following His lead, obediently. I only want what He wants, even it it opposes my fleshly nature. John 16:7, “But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper shall not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.”

I have reason to believe that spiritual warfare is real. I have not only seen and experienced it with my own eyes, but there is supporting Biblical evidence (see prior citations within thread, I would be happy to provide more upon request). Bible talks about the mark of the beast, the son of perdition, and the events leading up to that. Well, so far, prophesy is being fulfilled. I have reason to believe the rapture of the church will occur soon.

I have reason to believe that what man describes as quantum physics is indeed a component in the fabric of reality. Look at this illustration of an atom:

Now, look at this corresponding music video from my playlist:

Christopher Rau - Like Yesterday. It may seem unrelated at first, but keep watching.

Notice the way they dance together. Like electron orbits. I believe that the way in which one interacts with God dictates the way one experiences reality. This poem I wrote corresponds to the illustration of an atom above, the video, and your question:

Deep inside of the intricate function
In through the pupil to a visual junction
To the optic nerve where my gaze is believed
Valid
To my mind where vision is perceived
Deep inside of the subarachnoid space
Is a command center for a communications base
A labyrinthine cluster of nervous function
Continued in a cycle of endless resumption
I savor the rich taste of every liquid detail
The interwoven reverberation of every liquid detail
And even when the communication stops
And the steady pump turns to a reticent hush
And I become one with the ground from which I came
And I melt to a place of non-existent pain
I would have known that it was the tools of underlying mathematics
Pervading the thread of biological fabrics

©
Amina

I believe that math and quantum physics is a component of how God operates. I believe that the pineal gland is a transport mechanism or sorts. I see my ability to interact with God as a form of obedient submission. I could best describe it as… a dance. The way way the electrons spin around the nucleus. I obey God, we spin right, I can’t see though, because I am blindfolded. I am not exactly sure what will occur next because I am not attempting to independently manipulate the situation by manifesting a desire all my own. If my desire does not match the perfect will of God, I do not want it. And so in order for this dance to go well, because I am blindfolded, it requires the element of faith. There is such a strong emphasis of faith in the Bible. Hebrews 11:16, “And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.” So faith not only makes the dance more synchronized, but it also makes the dance more interesting. I believe one of the reasons God created man is for companionship. Originally, man was made to walk alongside God Himself in the Garden. Man gave man free will because He wants sentient companions/friends. Without freewill, man would be an automaton. God wants friends He can dance with who will dance back. Again, think atoms, think quantum theory. God likes variation. Just look outside and count the variations. When God walked this Earth, He took some friends up above the clouds, and those friends did not have to die to receive that privilege, Hebrews 11:5, 2 Kings 2:11; regarding Enoch & Elijah.

Furthermore, John 15 says: “You are My friends if you do what I command you. No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not understand what his master is doing. But I have called you friends, because everything I have learned from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me, but I chose you.” I consider God my friend. The experiences I have on a daily basis really blows my mind, even the small things. Faith is a substance: “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” I don’t think most people realize just how intentional God is with His words. Faith is the substance that makes the atomic dance between man and God extraordinary (out of the ordinary) - this is the best way I can think to describe it.

Now, when I experienced that abduction as described earlier in this thread, I explained how I felt that horrible distinct sensation in my stomach. Well, many years later after I did an inquiry prayer to God regarding what in the world that was all about, the word “gluon” was revealed to me through a dream. I didn’t even know that was a word. My background is in healthcare (I am specialized in working with dementia patients) and I was lucky enough to have gotten a medical research job (only because I was one of the rare candidates who passed a pretty difficult and very long test, I only had an associate’s at the time and even the doctors themselves were having issues passing this required test). My point is, I am not a scientist or a PhD with a background in chemistry. I have only recently been looking into it due to this revelation I am about to describe. Also, to this day I hardly watch TV and am very selective about the information I take in. So, trust when I say, I had no idea what a gluon was. Essentially, the Holy Spirit communicated to me that the reason for the “alien” (aliens are fallen angels and demons) abduction was something to do with “gluons.” So, I looked up what a gluon was after that dream and was surprised to find out: Gluon: Messenger particle of the strong nuclear force, which binds subatomic particles known as quarks within the protons and neutrons of stable matter as well as within heavier, short-lived particles created at high energies.

Based on this as cross-referenced with the word of God, my theory is that demons/fallen angels have been obsessed with manipulating (witchcraft) the essence of God as it was imparted into man by messing with human DNA, materials, etc. (and I can elaborate on this further, because there is much more to this theory). Bible makes clear that there is a spiritual war (1 Peter 5:8), and that spiritual warfare is necessary: 2 Corinthians 10:4, “For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal*, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds*.” There is more I could say on this, but this conveys my point for now.

So, Jesus is my example. He fasted, so I fast. He prayed frequently, I do so as well. I see fasting and prayer as additional tools for spiritual warfare and I like to be proactive, not reactive. I see my body as a temple for the Holy Spirit, so I won’t defile myself by fornicating. I am a girly girl and am not extreme to the point where I dress in a potato sack. I like my high heels, etc. Point is, I think that if you take an electron too far away from the nucleus, it won’t spin. God is the “nucleus” so to speak for the purposes of this example. I like to dance, I don’t want to be far from God. The enemy seeks to crate distance between man and God via sin which throws off the intended will of God as per man’s free will to participate in sin. Because of all of these factors, I avoid sin like the plague to the best of my ability. I crafted a training program of sorts (for lack of a better term) for myself to increase my mindfulness in an attempt to avoid even unholy thoughts. So far, so good. “Practice makes perfect.” When I do wrong, I repent. However, I make a wholehearted effort to avoid sin. I take pride (for lack of a better term) in my purity. I refuse to allow this polluted world to taint my soul. I refuse to allow social norms to dictate how I think. I am not a follower. What I am though, is a follower of Christ. I have a profound understanding of the enemy’s schemes. My beliefs are rooted in the word of God. I do not operate through the spirit of fear, but rather the spirit of victory through God.

I may add more to this later. Do you have any other questions or ideas so far?

©
Amina

Nice to meet you as well.
Thank you for your response. I value your creative perspective.
I believe creativity is the unique ability to take two seemingly unrelated things and show their unity in a novel way. This forum I find very open to all sorts of discussions. Where the Spirit of the lord is, there is freedom…this includes ideas. But there is also guardrails.

I enjoyed the poem, I also enjoy poetry and abstract thoughts. I don’t see all the connections in the video you posted, although I wish I could load the dishwasher that way !! here are my meager poetic attempts. enjoy

you may be correct and there is current valid research in that area

I asked about Enochian demonology. That is an understanding about the origins and function of demons as told from the Book of Enoch.

if you do read Enoch, use discretion as it is beneficial in understanding the view of the new testament authors regarding angels and demons. But is is only believed to be inspired by the Ethiopian Coptic church. (might need fact check)
Dead Sea Scrolls Spotlight: The Book of Enoch - The BAS Library

I would only caution that you add the Church into your discernment routine. Know what our Christian ancestors thought and believed about certain things. Also the current body of believers can help us stay on track. Our hearts can deceive us.

amen

Manichaeism rears its head again! Satan is not God’s equal in the least, he isn’t even the equal of the archangel Michael (whose name is the response to Satan’s defiant “I will be like the Most High!”)

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Odd, then, that these chemicals interact in such a way as to result in 100% accurate descriptions of activity in an operating room as seen from above, including details such as the surgeon asking a nurse to wipe his brow.

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Troy,

Thanks for sharing your work - I can certainly check it out. I think the art of piecing words together to create a provocative illustration is one of the ways that God can express His Divine nature through man.

I am honestly not familiar with the terms Enochian demonology/theology and that’s why before posting my prior response to you, I looked it up. I found conflicting information. I am personally more interested in the base word of God and how He operates vs His inferior opposition and their names. I have perused the book of Enoch (but barely) and am focusing on the main books of the Bible because I think it’s a good solid base to build understanding upon; Matthew 7:24-25. From there, I trust that God will guide me on what things to consider next, always cross-referencing it with of course, the Bible. What do you think about the book of Enoch? I do know that the Apocrypha was part of the KJV Bible for 274 years until it was removed in 1885, but I do not believe the book of Enoch was ever in the KJV. In terms of what I do know about the book of Enoch, it seems to provide details regarding the lust that fallen angels had toward man and their teaching of magic/manipulation, the consummation between demon and man producing giant/nephilim offspring, etc. I do believe that Hell was originally designed for the fallen angels, not man. Though, through man’s alignment with the fallen angel agenda (known or unknown); Matthew 7:13, many men will earn their space in Hell. Based on the limited information I know about the book of Enoch (and I really don’t know a whole lot), I do not see any contradictions between that and the standard books of the Bible. I would need to look at the nuances between the language it was transcribed from, etc. to formulate a more solid understanding. The Bible says in Jude 14-15, “Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” As I stated earlier in this thread, I believe that the forbidden fruit Adam and Eve ate of was not a fruit in the literal sense, but rather a sex act with the Devil. There are plenty of instances in the Bible where the word “fruit” is used symbolically (references provided elsewhere in my prior post in this thread). It is worth reading my theory on that in terms of “superfecundation” and the Canaanite offspring that I believe still walks this Earth today, John 8:44; “You belong to your father , the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.” Also reference Matthew 3:24-30, The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares. Is what I stated above in terms of my perspective congruent with the Book of Enoch to some extent, at least? Perhaps, I don’t know for sure, because I have not taken the time to study the book of Enoch in depth. I am not opposed to the possibility of The Book of Enoch containing elements of Truth and I am not in the habit of restricting how God chooses to convey Truth.

In my prior post, I mentioned that, “I cross-reference my philosophies with the word of God and have spent time developing my philosophies accordingly as per the leading of God via the Holy Spirit within me.” To that, you commented: “I would only caution that you add the Church into your discernment routine. Know what our Christian ancestors thought and believed about certain things. Also, the current body of believers can help us stay on track. Our hearts can deceive us.”

I don’t go to church anymore, too many close-minded and envious hypocritical individuals (in my experience). Don’t get me wrong, some people need that because it’s better than nothing. As I previously mentioned, I believe the Church is a people not a place. I know that Hebrews 10:25 states, “Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.” Well, the conversation I am having with you here right now is better than any conversation I have had with anyone in any physical church building. I would consider this forum a form of congregation (from my perspective). When I go out, even if just to the grocery store, random people approach me to have conversations (out of the blue) about a wide array of topics and God tends to come up (because for me, everything goes back to God) - That is another form of congregation.

I will give you an example. During a Bible study way back when, the ladies and I were discussing the wonderfulness of God. Some people were providing examples. As did I. I explained (true story), “I was sitting on the floor of my bedroom when suddenly I felt a tickle on my leg. I looked down and there was a huge brown recluse spider (the thing was huge, like the size of the palm of my hand) crawling on my knee. I cried out to God and the thing didn’t bite me, instead it ran away. I knew I needed to find it and kill it because I didn’t want it to cause harm. I took a glass vase, and chased the spider down. At one point it was on the ceiling and almost fell onto my head (but barely missed as I tried to contain it) and then finally, I secured it in the upside-down vase and killed it with bleach.” They were looking at me like I had three heads, one of them even said, “I have never heard of a brown recluse spider that big.” As if to say I was lying. That’s when I pulled out my phone and offered to show her a picture of it (because I took photos). She refused to look at the photo, still in disbelief that I had what it took to hunt down that spider and not get bitten even though it had been sitting on my leg. I kindly explained to the ladies that, “God certainly is good, and I am thankful for all the ways He has protected me from danger.”

Sometimes, I just want to say to these kinds of people, “Just because something is not possible for you in your reality, does not mean it is not possible for me.” Too often, people use themselves and their experiences as a barometer to measure the experiences of others. Some of those with the lowest spiritual rank want to be the most influential. In a potentially multi-dimensional (quantum) reality (Bible citations regarding this theory are provided in my prior posts within this thread), I don’t allow others to push their limitations onto me. The music video I provided correlates because it is an artistic demonstration of atoms, the building blocks of matter. Perhaps when you zoom out, man has the potential to dance with God, a dance of obedience and faith, to produce out-of-the-ordinary experiences. This kind of dance requires the pursuit of a minimal-sin lifestyle in order to lessen the distance between man and God. In the video, the dishwasher being loaded that way is a demonstration of Faith. They both throw the dishes without looking, faithfully expecting for the dishes to go where they are intended to be. The guy in the dinosaur costume is a metaphor for spiritual opposition, in some instances being a footstool; Psalm 110:1. My life is a dance with God and no narrow-minded individual will ever take that truth away from me.

The level to which I avoid sin in life is rare - incredibly rare. I know that the only perfect one is God, and I do not claim to be perfect. I like the saying that goes, “Only trust someone as far as you can see God in them.” Isaiah 2:22 even says; “Stop trusting in mere humans, who have but breath in their nostrils. Why hold them in esteem?” Also, because I see my body as a temple, Holy grounds for the essence of God to dwell within (again, I do not think of myself as God). I am very selective about things like who I allow to touch me. So when the pastor says, “Turn to the right and shake your neighbor’s hands,” etc. I truly don’t know if that’s a hand I want touching mine, especially if that’s the same hand that covered a sneeze. I remember how pissed a doctor got at me when I told him to go wash his hands and put on a pair of gloves before touching me. All in all, not everyone is meant to fit in. Perhaps some people are designed to stand out. I use the Bible and the Holy Spirit as a point to cross-reference because those are worthy points to utilize as a tool for cross-referencing. In terms of using the Church as a cross-reference mechanism, well… I would love to meet someone who might be able to relate to the level of spiritual experience that I have, or even have a true understanding of the Bible. Perhaps that is part of the reason for my presence on this forum, lol. Perhaps I am looking for my “tribe.”

What a wonderful conversation!

Here is another video for you: Demuja: I Want You

Notice the way the cards move? No two people are doing the same exact thing regarding the way the deck moves. Some cards are being moved as a byproduct of the nearest card touching them, and then that in turn creates a ripple effect. If one person’s card is not moving the way another person’s cards moves, that does not mean the action did not occur.

Amina

I think it is interesting and helps me think with a similar worldview that the apostles had. I find it has several strong Christological themes. In my fantasy mind I would like a world of giants to have existed, but we only have legends, megalithic stone structures and giant footprints, not much to go on really…LOL
image

This forum is usually a place that has more scientific discussions about the topic of theistic evolution versus other creation views. I would say most are university educated (correct me guys) very nice and smart folks!
I think it is an important place, as many people deconstruct their christian worldview when they are faced with the claims of science. Uncertainty about the age of the earth, Noah’s flood and evolutionary theory are common stepping stones for some to completely abandon the faith. Bio logos is a place that is trying to reconcile current science and the bible to find common ground. It’s a delicate balance and becomes hard to know where to draw the lines around biblical literal truth claims vs allegorical truth …

I have come to a place trying to see Christ as the center of reality. Radiating out from him in concentric circles. As one moves out from the center TRUTH the literal historical truth claims get harder to distinguish and possibly less important (but more dangerous as well) . All scripture rightly discerned leads into the center where we have clarity in the gospel Life death, resurrection of Christ. The next ring would be the church age (which again becomes a bit harder to discern…bodily assumption of mary for example, or was luther or calvin more correct. baptism of infants, ecclesiology, metaphysical realities of the sacraments and so on) this church age ring also includes all Israel and its history as well. They had similar level debates BC as now AD.
On the outermost ring would be creation and consummation (return). These seem to be most allegorical/ metaphysically true and hard to fully know in a literal sence… lots of varied opinions. So overall with christ as the center/ foundation we need to constantly check to see what we are building as doctrine or practices is built on the gospel. Reading church history and connection to a good bible believing church/people all helps with keeping us humble and looking at the center.
When someone gets super dogmatic about a particular outer ring theory, our spidey senses should be going off. This can even be our own hearts telling us we know something others don’t and need to get everyone on board. Im telling myself !

But paul reminds us

or no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— 13 each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

And Christ reminds us

John 15:26

“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.

When I get overwhelmed in the outer rings, by my thoughts or others I need the Spirit to return me into the center of Truth and sit with Mary outside the empty tomb and ask where Jesus is.

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I think the outer ring/inner ring approach can be divisive or too firmly categorical in a world where quantum correlation is a component. Perhaps the innermost ring has a transformative impact on the outer rings, (think Kaleidoscope fractals/Iterated function system fractals) when/if applicable depending on the actions/atmosphere within the outer ring(s) (whether simultaneous or independent). The same formula does not apply to every person or situation because everyone has a different kind of walk with God. No two Bible stories are the same. There is no one in the world living an identical life to anyone else. Variation is a component. I agree that God/Biblical literature should be at the center and everything else is peripheral vision. I agree that it is not about getting “everyone on board” but rather sharing Truth with an invitation for anyone with an opposing opinion to state their case (as they see it), etc. and then sifting when/if applicable in the spirit and pursuit of ultimate Truth realized. The formula below is a great sifting tool. You said: “When someone gets super dogmatic about a particular outer ring theory, our spidey senses should be going off.” I think if that outer ring theory is congruent to the central and unchanging Truth, then it is simply one of many manifestations of the solid/central Truth that remains consistent despite presentation type. Attached, find the chart I created:

There is no basis for that anywhere in the scriptures. It arises from a Puritanical view that sex is somehow more evil when abused than anything else. Indeed to sustain it you’d have to change the Garden stories by saying that God’s instruction was “Don’t have sex with the Devil”.

Those are only problems if one thinks that the modern scientific worldview’s definition of truth applies to the Bible.
I find it baffling often since coming from the perspective of the text in the original languages all the problems look clearly invented due to not letting the Bible just be what it is and reading it that way! The YEC viewpoint throws out so much of the actual theological message that I sometimes want to cry out in pain at the travesty!
The biblical definition of truth doesn’t involve historical or scientific accuracy, it rests on the source being authorized to speak on a matter, and given that the Holy Spirit both chose the writers and affirmed their writings there’s no doubt that those writings have authority – so why confuse the issue by dragging in science as YEC does?

In the Bible’s definition of truth, the historical claims aren’t relevant except for one: the Incarnation, from Annunciation to Ascension, with the pinnacle being the Crucifixion and triumph with the Resurrection the victory parade. All else is trustworthy only because it points to the Word enfleshed, the Truth become human for us.

Yes! Yet YEC would have us believe that Genesis is the foundation for the Gospel.
A good summation of where our focus should be is found in a certain statement about a special occasion: “They saw Jesus only”. From that perspective what Biologos is about is clearing away things that keep us from seeing Jesus only.

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My only comments –

  • cross-referencing is not theology and when based on English translation inevitably distorts the real picture; any cross-referencing should be based on the original language and text
  • without knowing and applying the historical context it is impossible to know the actual message; usually what is obtained is either skewed or stripped of most of the real message (this is essentially implied in your last box but I wanted to make it more clear)
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People in churches can be narrowminded and have other weaknesses. No church community is perfect because of the people that form the church community. Yet, we are ment to belong to a church community. Holy Spirit does speak to individuals but especially to churches; churches in the sense that these are part of the universal body of Christ. For example, Revelation 1-3 includes messages to local churches, not individuals.

Contacts in discussion forums may be positive but IMHO, these do not form living communities that can replace local churches. It is unfortunate and sad that all church communities are not places showing such loving relationships that were instructed by Jesus. Church communities are communities and can suffer from such toxic features that can make the community sick. In some cases, it may even be better for our mental health to switch from one church community to another.
I have been happy to note that there is nowadays more teaching about how to build healthy communities.

I know some people have more limitations in this than others. My wife once asked from a somewhat autistic person (‘classical’ Asperger) visiting our home that what would be an ideal church for you? His answer was ‘a church of one person’. He did not have anything against churches but his personal limitations made participating in the gatherings of a community a stressful experience.
I hope that church communities could develop to places that can be a home for diverse persons. In most cases, that is work in the making.

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It’s not odd. It’s called telling a tale.

St. Roymond and Kai (Knor), My responses to you both is below in each designated section:

Knor (Kai),

You stated: “My wife once asked from a somewhat autistic person (‘classical’ Asperger) visiting our home that what would be an ideal church for you? His answer was ‘a church of one person’. He did not have anything against churches but his personal limitations made participating in the gatherings of a community a stressful experience.” I am not autistic, nor do I have Asperger’s. I have however enjoyed working with children with such diagnoses and other developmental disabilities during my 9 years of experience in Healthcare.

If for some reason you feel the need to indirectly draw a correlation between the individual your wife spoke to, and myself, based on what I said regarding the Biblically evidence-based statements I made about the true definition of the Church, then I would invite you to go back and re-read what I wrote, including the portion where I said, “When I go out, even if just to the grocery store, random people approach me to have conversations (out of the blue) about a wide array of topics and God tends to come up (because for me, everything goes back to God) - That is another form of congregation.” - Meaning, there are multiple forms of congregation that I actively participate in. I have already expressed that I do not have social limitations and reciprocating the gesture to engage in conversation with others is while running errands, etc. (remember, multiple forms of congregation) is one of the multiple ways that I enjoy exchanges with the body of Christ. Your response is a wonderful example of people pushing their own perceptions onto others in an attempt to paint a picture or illustrate a narrative, without doing the due diligence of inquiry as a means to either apply or dismiss the perceived accuracy of the perception. Please exercise a higher degree of discernment (which is a gift from God); John 16:13, Proverbs 14:6, 1 Corinthians 12:10 . Believers must have the gift of discernment not only to distinguish the difference between scriptural truth and improper perception of it, but also to navigate the terrain of fellow man in an honorable and accurate way where one seeks to attain further understanding vs making baseless insinuations.

St. Raymond,

Ah, I see you have made your way back into the conversation (just an observation). Do you remember reading the portion somewhere in the above thread where Troy asked me if I was familiar with Enochoian theology/demonology? And my response to him included the following: “Based on the limited information I know about the book of Enoch (and I really don’t know a whole lot), I do not see any contradictions between that and the standard books of the Bible. I would need to look at the nuances between the language it was transcribed from, etc. to formulate a more solid understanding.” So, wouldn’t my prior statement lead one to the deduction that I have taken those steps with the Bible that I am constantly sourcing? So, regarding my chart, when you say, “Cross-referencing is not theology and when based on English translation inevitably distorts the real picture; any cross-referencing should be based on the original language and text”, I would encourage you to exercise your deductive abilities or perhaps even pose a question vs a presumptuous statement.

Also, regarding my chart, when you say, “Without knowing and applying the historical context it is impossible to know the actual message; usually what is obtained is either skewed or stripped of most of the real message (this is essentially implied in your last box but I wanted to make it more clear).” Are you clarifying what you perceive to be my intended statement? Based on what? Are you omnipresent? Do you definitively know what I intend? Have you sought to ensure an accurate understanding of what I intend to convey? Or, are you definitively defining what you perceive to be my “implication”?

You may or may not have noticed that somewhere in the above thread I stated, “It’s not just about reading the word or perceiving the word (regardless of cultural background). It’s primarily about rightly dividing the word. This involves studying Hebrew culture, language, traditions, etc. The Strong’s concordance is a handy tool. The Bible is about seeking to understand, not imposing one’s prior and rigid understanding. It’s about seeking to receive a transformative kind of education, the kind that brings to question prior mental constructs. To understand the Bible is to receive education from God. It’s important that when being educated, one leaves room to shift or at least try on various perspectives - this is a mark of intelligence.”

I would invite you to go find that section and read it, etc. to increase the quality of this discourse. I am referring you back to that statement to avoid redundancy, as it was already clearly stated.

Now, in terms of your pointing out my statement in which I said, “As I said earlier in this thread, I believe that the forbidden fruit Adam and Eve ate of was not a fruit in the literal sense, but rather a sex act with the devil.” I intended for the bolded word “believe” to say “suspect.” Thank you for the opportunity to clarify. Regardless, I invite you to:

  1. Visit the section in this thread where I discuss the Adam, Eve, and “fruit” theory with various Biblical citations.

  2. Refute those Biblical citations based on some sort of (Biblical, for example, as one option) evidence.

  3. If you disagree with my suspicion, state supporting evidence as to why your outlook holds a higher degree of accuracy.

I hope that makes sense to you.
Amina

Is there any evidence-based way that you may be able to substantiate your claim?

Find my response to you in the above-designated section to St. Roymond with your username specified.

So it’s well known you can’t prove a negative. The way the negative is proven is the fact that the claim the other person is making has zero evidence.

Can you present the evidence? If the evidence is just stories people told, and it’s purely anecdotal then it’s just stories. Same as stories of dragons, boogie men, Bigfoot and alien abductions.

So the evidence for me is the complete lack of meaningful evidence on your side.

Mi,

… Can you clarify what you mean by that? Your wording is not making sense. Clarity via skilful use of words is important. What are you basing that philosophy/approach/outlook on?

Are you saying that one needs to present the evidence to you and you need not provide any information, or barely any insight into your responses at all, because you view your opinion as fact?

An opinion that one cannot substantiate (or even attempt to evidence or defend/refute is a weak opinion founded on (potentially) emotion, and a form of cognitive sloth.

What about the correlation/data regarding consistency between “stories told” or accounts.

Do you think you may be capable of being a little more objective in your approach/wording in this context for the sake of higher-quality intellectual discourse?

Amina

So this is purely objective.

Present evidence that is stronger than just stories like fairytales, monsters, dragons be here type stuff and then I can evaluate it to the best of my ability.

Are you familiar with “proving a negative” type arguments? How is your evidence different from hillbillies and their Bigfoot sightings?

One must hypothesize as a building block in terms of the scientific method and gather data to pinpoint a trend to potentially create replicable/consistent results. By that line of thought, there is a trend across various cultures and socioeconomic classes regarding consistency across NDE report details.

Where is your contradictory evidence (other than your opinion) to support your adamant and broad claim that all of these people are “poor” and liars?

You don’t think that chemical activity in the brain should correctly reproduce what happened in a hospital operating room while the patient was under sedation to be odd? It’s either odd or the person actually did witness the events from the perspective given.

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I read it. There’s still nothing in the text to suggest anything sexual; God’s instruction was not “Don’t have sex with the Devil”. You don’t get to change the plain meaning of a text by importing some perceived idea from other texts.

If you think that there is sex involved in Genesis 3, then show it from the text of Genesis 3. That is very awkward since nowhere is “the knowledge of good and evil” equated with anything sexual.

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