Yes, of course. we were discussing whether the word zera refers to biological or moral descendants. I am relying on Isaiah to show that it can refer to moral descendants.
Pl know I am not a jew.baiter. I am a jew at heart. We need to crack the puzzle of Jewish persecutions. This is where we may find a solution .
Some Jewish friends have said this. I have attended lectures at chabad. I have studied the Zohar. I find myself in sync with it.
Your chosen interpretation is “the Jews will biologically be exterminated” so when do you expect this to happen?
And the only Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges I can find was written in 1897. A commentary is only as good as the scholarship of the person writing it and writing in 1897 J Skinner would be completely ignorant of a vast amount of new knowledge. You also made no comment on the Jewish commentary I posted.
That is NOT my interpretation. I only quoted Isaiah 6.13. you should take this up with Isaiah.
Jewish people believe that a person is Jewish if he is either:
a) Born of a Jewish mother
OR
b) Converts to Judaism
Surely. Pl explain why this may be wrong. I will try to respond. But please don’t send me on a wild goose chase.
Please post again if u may. But let us not go in tangents. I am relying not only on Isaiah but other verses also. Please see y detailed post at 112. I spent a whole day researching on this and thank you for that.
I am aware that there are many interpretations of 6.13. the fact that one interpretation supports zera as moral descendant is sufficient to establish that possibility. No interpretation is final. We need to think about Jewish persecutions. Can we bring an end to that?
Maybe yes. Maybe no. I just reported. U are free of course to deny that I am a jew. No issues.
I am told by christian priests that I am a christian. I am told by muslim imams that I am a muslim. All is good.
See #144.
This is the commentary on Isaiah 6:13. This verse is talking about a Jewish remnant, i.e. biological descendents, who will repent and rebuild the nation. Not a “moral descendant”.
I have seen nothing in what you have written that would support zera as “a moral descendant.” As I also pointed out above zera is never used in the NET translation in the sense of the definition that you latched on to.
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Skinner wrote “The last clause is an interpolation, wanting in the LXX., and with its omission it undoubtedly becomes possible to understand the figure of the verse as a sentence of final rejection”. He accepts the LXX over the Hebrew text which means he may not be using the best text. Much has been learned since 1897.
A possible way forward would be for you to see 112. Then write a sentence by sentence rebuttal. Otherwise we can let it rest.
Possible. That does not negate the possibility of my interpretation. In think we are going back and forth with same matter. Please respond point by point to my post 112 and 126. Otherwise it may be time to rest here. Thanks for this discussion
I wonder about that. If someone tells me I am a cat that wouldn’t make me one.
Do you have a Jewish mother or did you convert to Judaism? Did you have a Bar Mitzvah?
We would need to define what is the definition of a jew. There would be a theological, moral, historical, political and legal definition. That may be suitable for a new thread. Let us rest here for now. Thx.
We already know. And please, capitalize “Jew.” It’s a matter of showing respect.
For Isaiah 6:13 look at it in context
God is telling Isaiah what will happen to the nation if they don’t listen and change their ways. And what will happen is almost complete destruction with only a small portion remaining. But just as a tree can return from the stump the nation will return from that remnant, or “holy seed.”
The concept of a remnant of Israel is widespread in the OT and NT. See Remnant of Israel for the Jewish perspective. Be aware that there are methods of interpretation that don’t accept this idea so they come to completely opposite conclusions.
Even your commentary has this to say.
And this
I don’t see how “the nucleus of true Israel” could be considered the moral descendants of Abraham given Isaiah is speaking to the Jewish nation and not the gentile world.
There is the idea of the spiritual descendants of Abraham but this comes from the NT. And these descendants are followers of Christ but don’t have any claim to the land, AFAIK.
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Is Zera directed by beliefs?
Actually people created laws. So about people who think they’re Jewish then are Jewish., so their Zera continue due to their beliefs?
Also add the word change. Because change has always happen and still will., in order to define what is the definition of Jew
How has change allow people to be Jewish?
@mitchellmckain you wrote any modification should be our own choice.
RS: I agree with you, as adults so can choose themselves, any modification.
That word zera: if male Jew while intact, what happens to zera?
More Than 130 Rabbis Offer ‘Brit Shalom’ For Intact Jewish Sons
Shalom means peace. So baby left intact. So what happens then to Zera? I think still Jew zera.
Wow and these intact Jews aren’t cut off from covenant, so how did that affect zera? Still Jew Zera.
What would happen if @Terry_Sampson told these Jews who’s intact that they’re cut off from covenant., what would these Jews say?
A list of Rabbis and other Jewish leaders who perform a bris, without circumcision has grown to record numbers. Over 215 officiants are now available, all over the world, to perform the peaceful welcoming event for Jewish parents.
If you want to you can read more from that website
Good news. Adults can choose when adults what to do with their bodies while still being Jewish and not cut off from covenant
So @bharatjj lets also include this word change
and yes @bharatjj I see you as Jewish included in YHWH spiritual life already
Father Abraham for all - through spiritual communication for our deeper understanding
the Letter H Paleo-Hebrew letter @Bill_II as you shown arms reaching out the same (𐤄) I saw from @bharatjj Harappan as I saw (𐤄) H’s letter.
Then modern Hebrew Letter H ה showing inner ‘I’ we all carry see that little upward line ה that’s God in us. That’s so Amazing - the other area is physical,
Inclusion unconditional love
unconditional love has no conditions
I allow YHWH teach me
Remember Brit Shalom keeps baby intact approved by Rabbi and not cut off from covenant and is a Jew
Maybe it’s just me, but I think that the Jews should the ones to determine who is a Jew.
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Yes please. Just to clarify, I copy my post 126 below. U will see “Jews” was in caps. And, I wait for your response to this.
I have no issues with Mary being a jew. The bequeathal of Canaan was to the seed of abraham and jacob. Seed is same as semen. So if a Jewish father A begets a daughter B, then B is Jewish. But when non.jewish man C begets a child from Jewish B, then the child D is not born from the seed of jacob and would not be entitled to bequeathal. The Jewish tradition of reckoning from mothers thus cancels the bequeathal.
Maybe. But again we are distracting from the central issue of the thread. Please explain how a Jew born from a Jewish mother and a non-Jewish father becomes born from the “seed” of Abraham. And also for converts. No double standards please. We cannot claim the land of Canaan on the grounds of bequeathal to the seed of Abraham; and then bequeath it to those not born from the seed of Abraham.