Wait a minute, I understand now. The caste system came from Christian commentaries!
What I don’t understand is how the moderators can wink at somebody who trashes three world religions, including their own religion. Isn’t that against the rules?
Not what I was taught in World History.
The way God is revealed is one. Muslims believe Allah is a trickster. Jews/Christians believe God cannot lie. I have been told by a Muslim that their God is not the same as the God of the Bible. They, and it appears you, believe the Jews have modified the Hebrew Bible to suit their own needs. Wouldn’t you say this is a major contradiction?
And you ignore the simple fact that the Abrahamic covenant promised 3 things. You are fixated on the land so that is what I respond with. But the 3 things are:
- Descendants, he was childless at the time.
- Land, he had none at the time.
- Blessings for “all the families of the earth”, which are new.
The blessings were for his spiritual descendants which is probably what your second set of commentaries are talking about. When you read Christian commentaries this is what they tend to focus on. You don’t appear to be very well read in the NT, but the Apostles certainly believed the land was promised to the Hebrews, as I have pointed out before. And they also believed Abraham’s spiritual descendants, which are Christians BTW, would be blessed.
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Nice try, but nobody is running away.
True. But is it not possible that both may be true like the five blind men and the elephant?
I beseech you, we are children of God. Let us understand by dialogue. I am not into adverseraial discussions.
J21: Hindus have not been agressors precisely because they see God in everyone and do not claim any exclusivity.
B21 Not what I was taught in World History.
J21: Please give the details.
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J23: Maybe you need to point out the alleged contradictions.
B23 The way God is revealed is one. Muslims believe Allah is a trickster. Jews/Christians believe God cannot lie. I have been told by a Muslim that their God is not the same as the God of the Bible. They, and it appears you, believe the Jews have modified the Hebrew Bible to suit their own needs. Wouldn’t you say this is a major contradiction?
J23: I don’t think Muslims believe Allah is a trickster. Allah, and Biblical God, has many attributes. It may happen that there arises a inter-se conflict between two attributes. A mother, for example, may say to her child, “Don’t go outside.” The meaning has to be deciphered from the context. These words may be sarcasm to prod the child to go outside if the child is lazy. The same words may mean ““Don’t go outside” if the child is sick. In the former case, the mother “lies.” Here is a inter-se conflict between the loving and truthful nature of God-Allah. Among the two attributes, I think love is more important than truthfulness.
So, coming to the matter of Abraham, the word Zera has to be understood in the context of love of all humankind first; and biological descendants later—as said in many commentaries.
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J24: Isn’t it remarkable that beaglelady and @Bill_II, like the political Jews, Christians and Muslims, harp only on the biological and ignore the spiritual?
B24: And you ignore the simple fact that the Abrahamic covenant promised 3 things. You are fixated on the land so that is what I respond with. But the 3 things are:
- Descendants, he was childless at the time.
- Land, he had none at the time.
- Blessings for “all the families of the earth”, which are new.
J24: I am NOT fixed on land, please. The OP is focussed on the word Zera and the addition of “h” in the name of Abraham. I have no issues with the covenant 1 and 3 above. The exclusivity is embedded in covenant 2. This is drawn from “Zera” that we have already discussed.
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B25 The blessings were for his spiritual descendants which is probably what your second set of commentaries are talking about. When you read Christian commentaries this is what they tend to focus on. You don’t appear to be very well read in the NT, but the Apostles certainly believed the land was promised to the Hebrews, as I have pointed out before. And they also believed Abraham’s spiritual descendants, which are Christians BTW, would be blessed.
J25: Please give the verses where the “Apostles certainly believed the land was promised to the Hebrews.” Maybe I missed this earlier. Sorry if that be the case.
Thanks. Please help me understand why the first set of commentaries is good; and the second set is bad. Please do remember though that we are all children of One God;and God is not partial, nepotist or unjust.
Not when there are irreconcilable differences or conflicting perspectives at the same place.
Or not.
So it is not the children of the flesh who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as offspring.
Romans 9:8
we were by nature children of wrath.
Ephesians 2:3
sons of disobedience
Ephesians 5:6
child of hell
Matthew 23:15
Paul certainly did not believe that he had the same filial relationship to God before his conversion as after.
- LOL! Well done, Bharat, well done indeed. Your defense of your position is “a parable”: a story, by the way, which is no longer consistently told. Some tell it with “four blind men”, you say “five blind men”, and others say “six blind men.” One version of the story even had “no blind men”, saying instead that “men with sight” touched the elephant in the dark. The point of the story is, of course, the same regardless how many men there are in it: What does the Rigveda say? “Reality is one, though wise men speak of it variously.”
- You come in search of truth, and yet you have admitted that you acknowledge that Jesus died as the result of his crucifixion–as any true Christian would–and that the same Jesus dd not die as the result of a crucifixion–as any true Muslim would. And to confound us more, you claim to be a Jew–when it is a fact that you don’t have to believe Jesus existed, much less was crucified, was raised from the dead, and appeared to people who had known him before his crucifixion to be a Jew. Marvel of marvels!
- And you don’t stop there, but go on to claim that YHWH and Allah are the same “God” and that Moses led the first people of the Exodus out of the Indus Valley, which would raise doubts about your credibility among more Jews, Muslims, and Christians than not. There are Jews who would call that “chutzpah”.
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Bovine patties! You make horrible accusations against 3 world religions and then play your “guru of peace & love” card. Fluffy kittens and rainbows! Who are you kidding?
Please help me understand how commentaries caused the Holocaust.
Let me try one more time. The scripture says the land was bequeathed to all believers in One God. The commentaries say it was bequeathed to biological sons of Abraham, which, gives a sense of “chosen people” to the Jews, breeds inner arrogance and brings forth persecutions. Jesus never said he was the ONLY way. Later followers and commentators say he the ONLY way. Once again bringing reaction from believers in One God who have a different way. The Quran never says that it is the final word. The commentators say that Mohammad is the LAST and ONLY Prophet that is relevant today. Once again bringing reaction from believers in Allah who believe in other earlier- or later Prophets. The common strand is exclusivity which is a political strategem shrouded in theological cover. In this way, the commentaries have brought divisions between believers in One God,
I do not recall even having discussed this.
I do say this again. I’d be happy to respond to your objections. I cannot of course respond to blanket statements.
I have given my evidences. I am giving below the same again. I am happy to consider if you have a better hypothesis.
Briefly.
1 The parting of the Yam Suf matches with the flow of the Indus River being blocked by eruption of a mud volcano upstream of the point of crossing.
2 The bitter waters are found in the area near Kabul.
3 Second Yam Suf matches with Hamun-e-Mashel water body
4 Sinai volcano matches with Taftan.
5 There exists an ancient place name ‘Paran” near Isfahan.
6 Kings Highway matches with the Silk Route from Tehran to Baghdad.
7 Mount Hor matches with Kangavar.
8 Third Yam Suf matches with Shatt al-Arab.
True. But did he ever say that he was NOT son of God before conversion? I’d be happy to hear.
Please do specify the alleged “irreconcilable differences.”
You should read the New Testament. It doesn’t seem like you have.
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I read end to end 20 years ago. Mu focus at present is the Torah.
Let me ask one more time. How does this explain the Holocaust, which was caused by Hitler and the Nazis?
Then it seems you remember next to nothing of it. You are talking to Christians, so good familiarity with the NT is kind of important, don’t you think? You would not be asking a lot of your questions if you did.