Was Abraham Father of the Jews or of Humanity?

Hebrews are human beings and I’ll learn remain more on topic better.

Define what you mean by “word of God”. It means different things to different people.

The OT was written in a human language. Human languages change over time. Do all of the words in the KJV of the Bible mean the same thing today? And that is only over a few hundred years. You have to understand the text in terms of what the words meant at the time it was written, not by what you think the words mean today.

I think Abraham is Father of Humanity

Remain calm. Don’t struggle to get out, it will only make you sink even more. Call for help. When help comes, have them pass you a rope or long branch from firm ground so they can pull you out. (And don’t make a tiktok video of your ordeal)

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I looked up the word Mishnah which actually means repetitive over and over again., oral language passing down to others. I can picture them singing too.

Just think learning was through oral before written.

Actually the Mishnah is “an authoritative collection of exegetical material embodying the oral tradition of Jewish law and forming the first part of the Talmud”. It was first written down in the 3rd century AD.

There were written Hebrew texts for hundreds of years before the Mishnah. Those texts contain portions that were passed down orally.

RS: Ok so someone wrote way before the Mishnah did

BL: Actually the Mishnah is “an authoritative collection of exegetical material embodying the oral tradition of Jewish law and forming the first part of the Talmud”. It was first written down in the 3rd century AD

BL: First the definition of Jew and Jewish has changed over time

BL: “the Mishnah states that the offspring of a Jewish mother”

RS: Basically it’s people who changes it. So first it was through zera seed patrilineal father, then changed to through mother, as the Mishnah states that the offspring of a Jewish mother: because influences from Romans.

BL: Given the Mishnah was first written in the 3rd century AD it’s definition would not apply to the people in the OT.

RS: it says in the article you shared were influenced by the Roman legal system of the time

RS: this was where I was hoping to show neighbors influences and how that affects. After reading your message now I understand what I was trying to achieve, it was neighbors and the influences of neighbors. How does Philistines influences the Hebrews, how did neighbors influences Hebrews, and you shared, how did Romans influences Hebrews - so perhaps one can write about Philistines here. See I learn this now. Its the word influences

RS: it wasn’t 'till reading what you wrote, I now understood what I was after, it was neighbors and how that influences, such as you wrote about Romans. If only I had written like you did, I could had a sense of direction and not lose control. Lesson learn I’m learning from this. I’ll apply more this word influences and see how that helps me direct more

RS: how did Philistines affect during Hebrews with Pharaohs. If only i had written like that

RS: how did Roman affect Hebrews in Yisrael? See how nice that is., how did neighbors affected.

Abraham for humanity, while all these neighbors influences that causes people to change the laws.

Abraham ever interacted with neighbors, how much interaction and how much influenced, or was the rejection from neighbors cause where it made it difficult for Abraham father of humanity?

RS: in article you shared In an intermarriage between a Roman and a non-Roman, a child received the citizenship status of its mother.

RS: see how neighbors influences and then look how the Mishnah had to please the Romans and change their laws., who’s a Jew?

Yes. Research the Pharisees if you need another rabbet hole to go down.

And, BTW, when you say “zera seed” you are actually saying “seed seed” or “offspring seed”. There is only one Hebrew word for both. Which use would be determined by the context in which it is used.

Interestingly in the Greek two different words are used, sporas for seed and sperma for offspring. In the LXX the land was promised to Abraham’s sperma, or offspring.

@Bill_II . Waiting.

That is fine. But, then, by the same logic, the bequeathal of Land of Canaan to “zera” cannot be unchanging. One cannot cherry pick what to accept and what to modify.

I understand Word of God as “inspired.” When a person connects with God-consciousness then his/her human words reflect the consciousness of God.

What logic? Since the Jews changed their laws likewise God has to change His? The point of the covenant was God said, “I will” and it is an unconditional covenant which God cannot break. The Jews don’t bequeath the land, God does. If you would like to change that I suggest you take it up with Him.

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God-consciousness is a new one for me.

How accurately would their words reflect this consciousness? How accurate would the words remain over time as the texts are copied and language changes?

I believe the Holy Spirit oversees our scriptures and ensures the message that God intended is preserved.

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I suggest we continue with the method agreed previously. Pl respond to my reply at 186. Thx.

When you respond to something I posted for somebody else I will naturally respond.

One word answers don’t make for much of a conversation.

BL2.1 How do you understand the covenant with Abraham? Who promised what to whom? Were conditions applied?

Abraham did he ever hurt

Abraham ok., yes

BJ2.1 The first covenant was to bequeath land of Canaan to the biological descendants of Abraham. Abraham was a trader. Abraham or his family were not kings. Abraham never captured ant land. Thus, one possibility is that when God bequeathed land of Canaan, He may have bequeathed the trading rights to the family of Abraham. The condition was that Abraham’s descendants would worship only One God and no idols.

BJ3.1 The second covenant. Then Abram was made father of all humanity. His name was changed from Abram to Abraham. Thereafter, material progress was bequeathed to his biological descendants; and spiritual progress was bequeathed to his moral descendants, that is, those who believed in his message of One God.

How has Abraham’s influence

@riversea There are many instances in the Bible that indicate that the Jews did not keep the covenant and were punished for that failure. The question for this thread would be: Which covenant did the Jews fail to keep? Was it that of idol worship as done by Aaron, was it that of Rehoboam, or was it misreading the bequeathal to the biological descendants of Abraham?
My sense is that God bequeathed the land of Canaan (and rest of the earth) to the believers in One God. The Jews left Mitsrayim due to their conflict with the Pharaoh, Then, in order to keep their flock together, they invented the idea that the land of Canaan was bequeathed to the biological descendants of Abraham.