Watch the Columbus Day link. Cite where it doesn’t.
I will watch it. But I’m also asking you to positively support your claim.
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This is what happens when theology exists in the clouds and is disconnected from reality. You can caricature pointing out genuine suffering and evil as hedonism.
Vinnie
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My God Kendel! Just look at all of history since Constantine. It is the history of Babylon the Great. Being recapitulated right now, again, in Russia. On January 6th. The genius who wrote Revelation understood how power corrupts religion as had all the prophets for a thousand years before. The ancient Jewish prophets who declared social justice. And died for it. At the hands of terrified fascists cloaked in religion desperate to cling on to power at any cost. January 6th. They haven’t gone away.
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Absolutely. I don’t dispute any of your examples here.
But this:
it has virtually completely come from Christians one way or another
I’m not looking for excuses or justification or a pass or “anyone to modestly avert their eyes” from the wrong done “in the name of Christ” or by those who claim to identify with Christ. I recognize it. I study a good deal of ti. I hate it. I point it out when I’m aware of it. Much of my professional work is driven by it.
I’m not willing, however, to say that all the injustice in the world stems from or is associated with Christianity. Humans of all kinds do and have been doing evil quite well with and without Christianity. We can utilize and corrupt any ideals we like in order to justify or empower any corrupted-power grab we want to make. It doesn’t take any one particular faith, and I don’t believe any one or another is more effective for the purpose.
I think putting it all on Christianity, though, is simplistic.
And too easy.
I think the best work of Christianity happens at the small, (usually) local scale and is not noticed very much. Although that doesn’t achieve the broad goals of social justice we believe are needed.
However, I would gladly be pursuaded that social justice is possible large scale, and that there are specific actions I can take that will help bring it about. Whatever they are, though, I honestly am not sure, and I don’t see a coalescence that I can recognize. I see splinters here and there, trying.
As it is, I’m reading the manual while flying.
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Injustice is human. We’re dominantly… wired for injustice. And all human systems, authorities, groups, individuals claim to be just. Righteous. A rather large system of the world for the past 1700 years is Christianity.
As Mohandas Karamchand said when asked what he thought about Christianity, he said he thought it would be a good idea. He knew, as a devoted follower of Jesus, exactly what he was talking about. And without firing a shot he got Caesar Britain kicked out of India. And was martyred by the hydra head of Orwellian Indian nationalism.
Kendel I KNOW that you are doing all that you possibly can. In your helpless privilege. Just like me. We must confess our weakness. Our sin. And repent. Corporately. Publicly. Here.
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Humans like to complain and whine about any and everything. I would know.
Yes, it does not add to the validity of an argument and does not commend the whinger. At all.
From a while back –
Some even try to guilt-trip us for being born.
Hardly all.
“Helpless” privilege….it needn’t be. It isn’t entirely.
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I beg to differ. Once one has it, it’s very difficult to get rid of : )
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I’m always finding a place I am falling short in this. Although, you and Kendel, and many others here, are exemplary in doing it.
1 John 3:17 New Century Version (NCV) 17 Suppose someone has enough to live and sees a brother or sister in need, but does not help. Then God’s love is not living in that person.
Rich People and the Kingdom of God
17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him. He fell on his knees before Jesus. “Good teacher,” he said, “what must I do to receive eternal life?”
18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good except God. 19 You know what the commandments say. ‘Do not murder. Do not commit adultery. Do not steal. Do not be a false witness. Do not cheat. Honor your father and mother.’ ” (Exodus 20:12–16; Deuteronomy 5:16–20)
20 “Teacher,” he said, “I have obeyed all those commandments since I was a boy.”
21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. “You are missing one thing,” he said. “Go and sell everything you have. Give the money to those who are poor. You will have treasure in heaven. Then come and follow me.”
22 The man’s face fell. He went away sad, because he was very rich.
23 Jesus looked around. He said to his disciples, “How hard it is for rich people to enter God’s kingdom!”
24 The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, “Children, how hard it is to enter God’s kingdom! 25 Is it hard for a camel to go through the eye of a needle? It is even harder for someone who is rich to enter God’s kingdom!”
26 The disciples were even more amazed. They said to each other, “Then who can be saved?”
27 Jesus looked at them and said, “With people, this is impossible. But not with God. All things are possible with God.”
28 Then Peter spoke up, “We have left everything to follow you!”
29 “What I’m about to tell you is true,” Jesus replied. “Has anyone left home or family or fields for me and the good news? 30 They will receive 100 times as much in this world. They will have homes and families and fields. But they will also be treated badly by others. In the world to come they will live forever. 31 But many who are first will be last. And the last will be first.”
Somalia drought: Witnessing a two-year-old’s death from hunger - BBC News It’s a good meditation on what a Christ follower would do.
My grandpa gave every day to the poor when he worked in a greenhouse, and recruited others to do it, too. However, when he left that job to work for World Vision, he gained tremendous respect for others who gave even more. Some he met kept only 2 sets of clothes, and gave everything else to the poor. I have a lot to learn.
Thanks.
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Nonsense Randy. You do it every day. It’s your job. That doesn’t count somehow?
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I’m in an amazing situation of being paid to do what I love, but I think it benefits me more than others. It is not to my credit; I’m paid for it.
I love this passage.
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Sorry for the Bible spam. I don’t usually do that, but I like these passages. Please feel free to disregard them.
Many others here are likely farther on this road than we even guess. Many, many of my patients demonstrate that very well, out of their poverty and weakness. I am grateful to know them.
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Of course you may differ!
But must it remain helpless? Pointless? Useless?
Like the helpless, useless Miss Bates of Emma? Too privileged to work and relatively too poor to be effective any other way?
Are we only worthy of Beatrice’s teasing, “Hey ho, for a [purpose]!”
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Randy, like @klax, it’s my turn to differ.
There are doctors, and there are doctors. There are the doctors who deliver the most heinous news to parents and then spend the rest of the acquaintance caring for the entire family. They diagnose one patient and end up with 4, and manage to keep them all alive and functioning and approaching hopeful, because once the hospital hell is over, there’s going to be years worth of work for the whole family to do.
Sure, the doctor got a paycheck. There is no possible compensation equivalent to the quality of work and humanity that took place during the pay period covered by the check.
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I can not imagine what you have gone through. I am sure you all are wonderful at giving that support to others, too. God bless.
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We had incredible examples to learn from.
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