Aye, from Jesus onwards the OT was used to justify the N. We use Shakespeare, our literary canon the same way. The story of Naaman’s healing is not historical.
Yeah, billionaires are suffering so much social injustice and as they control the media they get all that they want from the dispossessed, although it’s never enough.
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So it’s a problem that we would like there to be no racism, modern slavery, abuses of power and so on? Isn’t this what Christians should be striving for? I should hope the victims of injustices obtain support for what they want.
I think it’s really shitty when people just accept there’s corruption, child abuse, exploitation of the vulnerable, the list goes on. Even more appalling when coming from a Christian, or even other religions. I know I can’t change it, but I will never ever accept it.
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In Europe to the Urals, sub-Saharan Africa, the Americas, Australasia it has virtually completely come from Christians one way or another. Although that imperialism has retreated from south Asia (you know the Middle East, China, India, Indochina, Indonesia) its dire effects there taint all now.
I always use this thought.
When I help a turtle across the street I’m not saying the forests, I’m not removing the plastic from the ocean, I’m not really changing anything of any significance in the world. For a fact the world could be worse in the five minutes I took to help the turtle. I might not have even prevented anything. The turtle may have made it across the street perfectly fine without me.
But I did not harden my heart to the turtle and I helped it. Doing good makes us a better person. It is still placing goodness into the world. It’s still helping to prevent someone’s potential at just being a victim.
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If you consider the purpose of the bible to be to create a worldview that allows people to have a meaningful access to reality to all people, whether literate or not, the bible presents a highly inspired writing on a theological worldview that can be understood by intellectuals as well. The only ones struggling are the materialists.
The story is not just a mere description if puberty but describes that process that is at the foundation of the problem that can arise within puberty, the rejection of authority over the self which has become the hallmark of western civilisation.
Suffering as a conscious process would distinguish the position of suffering with and without self consciousness. [A higher-order theory of emotional consciousness] might be an article along the lines of what I want to express here, as the experience of self suffering needs self definition.
Looks like you deliberately try to misunderstand me. It should be obvious that we should not want to like things God does not want to be part of reality, which is why Christians work hard to eliminate those. How do you know you can’t change those things? Lucky those who worked for the abolition of the slave trade had the faith that their prayer would help them to move that mountain. If you state that you “know” you can’t do anything about it you actually do accept it by giving in to it. So how do you know?.
I did, so why does it make no sense?
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things Isaiah 45:7
Don’t agree, and I’m sure materialists wouldn’t agree with you either. There’s plenty of theists who are struggling, so your comment seems to be unjustified.
Perhaps I do misunderstood you, I don’t know, but it was not deliberate.
I’m not naïve enough. So do you think you could end human trafficking? Even the government doesn’t seem to be able, even though they identified the gangs responsible. How about make billionaires pay proper taxes? You think you can do that? These billionaires are bankrolling political parties, no way they will do something to p… them off, but you think that you can somehow do it? I have zero political power, even those IN power are seemingly unable. Sure, I would love to be powerful and put it to good use. The problem is, you don’t gain power by being a humble Christian. But if you still think you could do it, good for you, off you go!
Sure, abolition of slavery was a big step forward. But it didn’t actually end slavery, hence ‘modern slavery’. So however great achievement abolition was, it didn’t brought about social justice, not by any stretch of imagination.
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Ummm. Citations, please.
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Watch the Columbus Day link. Cite where it doesn’t.
I will watch it. But I’m also asking you to positively support your claim.
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This is what happens when theology exists in the clouds and is disconnected from reality. You can caricature pointing out genuine suffering and evil as hedonism.
Vinnie
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My God Kendel! Just look at all of history since Constantine. It is the history of Babylon the Great. Being recapitulated right now, again, in Russia. On January 6th. The genius who wrote Revelation understood how power corrupts religion as had all the prophets for a thousand years before. The ancient Jewish prophets who declared social justice. And died for it. At the hands of terrified fascists cloaked in religion desperate to cling on to power at any cost. January 6th. They haven’t gone away.
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Absolutely. I don’t dispute any of your examples here.
But this:
it has virtually completely come from Christians one way or another
I’m not looking for excuses or justification or a pass or “anyone to modestly avert their eyes” from the wrong done “in the name of Christ” or by those who claim to identify with Christ. I recognize it. I study a good deal of ti. I hate it. I point it out when I’m aware of it. Much of my professional work is driven by it.
I’m not willing, however, to say that all the injustice in the world stems from or is associated with Christianity. Humans of all kinds do and have been doing evil quite well with and without Christianity. We can utilize and corrupt any ideals we like in order to justify or empower any corrupted-power grab we want to make. It doesn’t take any one particular faith, and I don’t believe any one or another is more effective for the purpose.
I think putting it all on Christianity, though, is simplistic.
And too easy.
I think the best work of Christianity happens at the small, (usually) local scale and is not noticed very much. Although that doesn’t achieve the broad goals of social justice we believe are needed.
However, I would gladly be pursuaded that social justice is possible large scale, and that there are specific actions I can take that will help bring it about. Whatever they are, though, I honestly am not sure, and I don’t see a coalescence that I can recognize. I see splinters here and there, trying.
As it is, I’m reading the manual while flying.
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Injustice is human. We’re dominantly… wired for injustice. And all human systems, authorities, groups, individuals claim to be just. Righteous. A rather large system of the world for the past 1700 years is Christianity.
As Mohandas Karamchand said when asked what he thought about Christianity, he said he thought it would be a good idea. He knew, as a devoted follower of Jesus, exactly what he was talking about. And without firing a shot he got Caesar Britain kicked out of India. And was martyred by the hydra head of Orwellian Indian nationalism.
Kendel I KNOW that you are doing all that you possibly can. In your helpless privilege. Just like me. We must confess our weakness. Our sin. And repent. Corporately. Publicly. Here.
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Humans like to complain and whine about any and everything. I would know.
Yes, it does not add to the validity of an argument and does not commend the whinger. At all.
From a while back –
Some even try to guilt-trip us for being born.