The Bible teaches predestination and free will. That much is correct. It does not, however, teach absolute predestination or absolute free will.
We covered that in the other thread. Your false dichotomy based on the antiquated idea of absolute time is meaningless. The fact that God is not a part of the measure of time in the physical universe does not mean that God is incapable of time and doesn’t change the fact that the future is a superposition of possibilities which is the only thing that enables the participation of God and human free will in the events of the world.
Jesus also know that the Pharisees were plotting to kill Him and the Romans were vulnerable to p[political pressure.
There is an interesting theory, sparked in part by the listing of Simon the Zealot liste4ed as the 11th disciple while Judas is listed as the 12th in Mt 10:4. This theory says that Judas was part of a plan of the Zealots to force the hand of Jesus to lead a revolt against the Romans, which of course is what people expected the Messiah or Christ to do.
When Jesus showed signs that we was not a political Messiah, by cleansing the Temple, the Zealots tried to force His hand by having Him arrested for plotting against Caesar. The thought being that if He were arrested He would have to fight back to save His skin. Jesus did not choose to fight back, but gave His life to prevent a very bloody war and save the world from our sins.
People might understand greed better than misplaced zeal for freedom. but if Judas betrayed Jesus because he confused his own values with God’s plan, that is also a very serious sin. In fact it seems to me a most appropriate lesson for many today.
Sometimes I wonder if I’m making things to be way more complexion than it really is. I mean the fact that God choices to interacted with us. Maybe shows that yes he did plan things but maybe not in the same sense has us. Like the Pharaoh’s heart. God could have easily made it be that Pharaoh’s heart could open more but wanting to respect that he couldn’t get through without force harden it. It’s a both give and take. They both exist together.
I hope I’m not being annoying. It’s just this is one of those teachings that is a divined. We know God is outside of time and does plan. But what does that mean
Don’t worry, Angela – this is a question that many people have wrestled with quite a lot, and will continue to as long as the Bible is around! I tend to agree with you that both free will and predestination exist together, to some degree. But how that pans out in our lives is difficult to understand or explain. It’s worth talking about though, so don’t be afraid to ponder it and ask questions here.
Yes, that’s another difficult question that I don’t think many people can find easy answers for. One explanation is that evil is simply a consequence of living in a material world where human beings have free will. If we were never allowed to experience the consequences of our freedom, we would be more like robots rather than sentient beings who can choose to seek and love God, however imperfectly.
Yes, and that’s a valid question. Some have found that an answer is to look at everything as a gift… “all is grace” in a sense. But that doesn’t necessarily make it easier to bear.
I can’t see it that way. How is violence a gift. But why not just take people who wood be in heaven already. Wouldn’t it be easier
This year hasn’t been easy. My grandma has early stage ovarian cancer and my grandpa died. I feel this is a punishment. Why else has god allowed this to happen the same time
Why care for the rest when there is no saving it. Why not just allow to destroy it. Why should God be Patience ? He knows all. Why care for certain things?
I’m so sorry you’re experiencing this loss, Angela. I can see why you would be asking questions like this. Grandparents are special and I’m sure this is hard to bear.
I should have phrased my comment differently – life is a gift. But it doesn’t always feel that way. I believe God is redeeming the world to him, but we are in the “already, not yet” where things aren’t quite right. I join you in wondering why God has not done things differently – why it can’t just be perfect from the beginning.
I’m sorry, too. Some of the things we bear are indeed burdensome. But Jesus knows us and what is good for us, and trials are good for us, if we belong to him. They can show us more our need for him and bring us closer to him, among other things.
I’m reminded of several things – a song, a verse from a poem and a book.
The song:
The verse:
Away, Despair! My gracious Lord doth hear:
Though winds and waves assault my keel,
He doth preserve it: he doth steer,
Ev’n when the boat seems most to reel:
Storms are the triumph of his art:
Well may he close his eyes, but not his heart.
- George Herbert
It starts with her toddler sister being run over and killed by a delivery truck in their farmyard when the author was only five years old. (You can read the whole first chapter and a good chunk of the second online for free by clicking on the ‘Look inside ’ feature above the book image, or you can get the same content in a less distracting visual context by downloading the Kindle sample. If you are unfamiliar with Kindle, you can get a free reader for your device – message me if you like and I will be glad to help. I don’t know where you are, and there are some international restrictions, unfortunately.)
Yes. That would have been fun, and funny. I would have reacted exactly the same way, knowing God had kept me in perfect timing to have the opening in the driveway and parking lot clear. God-incidents; we notice them all the time as if the Lord is winking an eye at us as we pass by, going on our business. We know we are never out of his sight or thoughts for an instant.
’ feature above the book image, or you can get the same content in a less distracting visual context by downloading the Kindle sample. If you are unfamiliar with Kindle, you can get a free reader for your device – message me if you like and I will be glad to help.