Phil, I puzzle at this comment. Do you define “Free Will” as anything other than every human being given the option to choose whether or not to obey God? (As opposed to being robots, programmed to obey or not obey as planned ahead of time by God.)
I think I just meant that the tension between Calvinism and Arminianism is not something I have resolved, though I lean more toward free will, and do not see Open Theism as heresy. As the elder George Bush once said, " I have strong opinions, some of which I disagree with."
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Yea that’s one I often wonder. I do think God plans certain things but other things we do on our on. Why else would we have to find Jesus? God could easily just take people who are saved
God passively knows all that can be known now. Which is immense beyond belief. Infinite infinities. But does not include where raindrops will fall tomorrow. Let alone when who will be born.
Another answer is no neither.
You neglect that God is omnitemporal.
Did I reply this wrongly elsewhere? I neglect no such thing.
God is omnitemporal and his knowledge does include where each raindrop falls and on whom.
Seriously? You have read Psalm 139 before, haven’t you?!
Does His knowledge include what the spin of an electron is?
And again, what has that three thousand year old Iron Age poem got to do with anything?
Yes.
Everything.
Waiting in great anticipation for Dale’s answer to that one!
Perfect! Thus demonstrating Dales total incomprehension of science – quantum physics as well as time and space.
It has been demonstrated conclusively that the electron doesn’t have a particular spin in a given direction until AFTER it has been measured. Thus I have been trying to explain to Dale that the future is the same.
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God is omnitemporal. What does that tell you about ‘AFTER’? And God can’t be an observer? Your triumph is premature.
It tells us that God doesn’t look at the spin of all the electrons but leaves them in a state of superposition.
And likewise God gives us free will by not looking at the future but leaves it in a state of superposition of possibilities also. That way we are not only free to make our own choices but God is also free to interact with the world as He chooses.
‘Leaves’ implies time, which doesn’t apply.
He’s ‘already’ there.
Close.
Hey all,
Let’s try and focus less on personal put-downs and more on gracious dialog. Please ask yourself whether your post is going to move the conversation forward before hitting “reply.” Thanks.
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Sorry. I should know better by now.
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There is no future for God to look in to. It isn’t real. It hasn’t happened.
Past, present and future are all real to God. He is omnitemporal. That is what omnitemporal means.
The one thing we learn in physics is that there is no ONE WAY to look at things. That is why is all wrong to say that Ptolemy got it wrong and the it is the earth which goes around the sun. The point is that you can look at the earth and the sun from different frames of reference. In one frame of reference the sun is moving in a circle about the center of the galaxy and the earth moves in a coil.
Likewise physicists often look at the universe from a four dimensional perspective and they notice that most of the laws of nature are symmetrical with respect to time so that they often wonder why there is an arrow to time at all. Entropy is one answer but it is not entirely satisfactory and I think the decoherence of superposition states gives a better answer to the question. But this makes it quite clear that the future only exists in a state of superposition of possibilities.