I thought it best to start a new thread about this rather than raise it in the other thread “My battle with depression”. I’d be interested to know what everyone’s thoughts are regarding specific mental health or other pastoral issues facing those of us with a particular inclination towards – and careers in – science and technology.
In particular, what advice would you give to your pastor on the matter? Discussions around science and faith all too often tend to operate at a doctrinal or socio-political level, revolving around subjects such as creation and evolution, or climate change, but I think there’s also a real need to discuss science and faith on a pastoral level as well. Certainly, if the Church is to “go into all the world” as Jesus commanded, then it needs to pay attention to the specific pastoral needs of those of us working professionally in science-based careers, and that includes supporting us with any mental health issues that we may have, as well as helping us to maintain good mental hygiene.
As a layperson; I would suggest time to listen to the person and their concerns, let them know that its normal to have issues and depressive spells and that God knows our struggle and loves us regardless. I would say that both prayer, support in both community in church and family along with medical help will combat issues of mental health. God has given us a large tool box to help other’s with the issue and we need to use all the tools at our disposal. That is my point of view on it.
I think the most important thing is to pick the right pastor. Seriously, rather than be frustrated in a church whose pastor stresses YEC issues, it is better to seek one that does see science as a problem, and where you can feel good about worship and fellowship.
One major problem I have heard from those in science is the pain that can occur when you are set apart at work due to being Christian, then also suffer at the hands of fellowChristians who are intolerant of your views at church. Conflict is unavoidable, but you shouldn’t go out of your way to find it.
So, what advice to give pastors. I would say that encouraging the fellowship to be accepting and loving to one another, recognizing that there are multiple ways to faithfully interpret scripture and live the Christian life. I think the pastor should encourage the science oriented parishioners to be open , honest, and vulnerable, trusting others to respond in kind. It doesn’t help to feel you cannot be honest with those in your church, which leads to resentment. Admittedly, there are times you have to bite your tongue, but should not live in a culture where you do not feel you can be honest.
The pastor should be an advocate of professional counseling when appropriate. Too often pastors have too little training or too little time to deal with serious issues so should have no qualms about referral.
Not sure if that adddresses your question, but await other’s input.
Here are some things that I’d say to pastors everywhere in this respect.
First, understand what we’re good at and what we’re not so good at. Many scientists and techies are introverts, and it can be quite intimidating to sit through sermons dominated by loud, boisterous evangelists who think that if you get into a lift in a car park with someone on the ground floor and haven’t converted them by the time you reach the third floor then you’re woefully backslidden. There are far too many evangelists out there who expect all of us to act as double glazing salesmen for Jesus. Show us how we can be valued for the skills that we do have, rather than put down on account of the skills that we don’t.
Second, understand how we think and why. Science demands rigorous, precise ways of thinking that are alien to most people trained in the arts and humanities. We’re all too aware that getting things wrong, even in seemingly minor ways, can cause a lot of damage. This gives us a very low tolerance for sloppy thinking and factual inaccuracy that can all too easily be mistaken for arrogance or dogmatism. In actual fact, it’s nothing to do with dogmatism at all, but simply the knowledge that we’re dealing with hard, indisputable facts that comes from years of having been in situations where we’ve had to clear up the mess that’s resulted when people got science wrong.
Third, help us to make and sustain healthy relationships and take care not to put barriers in our way. It can be difficult to make relationships when you’re in an environment where a lot of people either don’t understand what you’re passionate about, don’t care about things that you see are important, or view your chosen career path with suspicion or hostility.
Amen to that! I hate hate hate trying to “sell” anything to anyone, so I often felt like a bad Christian for not being more “vocal” about my faith. This applies just as well to left-brained introverts who ended up in the humanities.
Do you think another thing pastors might need to be mindful of is whether someone with this kind of mindset might be more prone to legalism? If someone transfers their desire to “get things right” to following Christian rules, it seems they/we might need extra grace and guidance in order to avoid putting stumbling blocks in others’ (and our own) way.
When I was thirteen, my headmaster pointed out that there are two different kinds of subjects. There are exact, precise subjects such as maths and physics on the one hand, and on the other hand, there are what he described as “the vagaries of humans and other living beings.” They require completely different mindsets and completely different approaches, and you often have to make massive context switches when going from one to the other. Very often, those of us in science and technology are really good at the former but not so good at the latter. On the other hand, pastors and evangelists are usually very much adept at the latter, but hopelessly at sea when it comes to the former.
Here’s a blog post by a fellow computer programmer giving his take on it the problem. “Sometimes, The Better You Program, The Worse You Communicate.”
I agree with those observations, @jammycakes, and agree that pastors can use your observations to better understand the scientists in their flock. I have thought similarly that churches reach out to those who relate to God through art, emotion, literature, and mystically, but fail to reach out as often to those who relate to God on an intellectual basis. If fact, that way of understanding God is often disparaged. We know God wants to bring all his children to him, so we should expect that those who relate less emotionally and more cerebrally are equally valuable and the church needs to reach them as well.
By the way, your blog, James, at https://howoldistheearth.wordpress.com/ does a great job of expanding on some of your thoughts and is worth a read for those here unfamiliar with it.
Dear @jammycakes. Thank you for starting this thread. I’m certain it will be a real benefit to the community here. As someone involved in pastoral ministry I’ll be watching this thread with great interest.
As I noted elsewhere, churches and church leaders (at least here in the UK, at least) are getting much better at dealing with mental health issues and better at supporting those who wrestle with them. That said there is still some way to go before we catch up with the rest of society, let alone start leading the way!
Oh tell me about it. Some people are positively anti-intellectual.
One of the most controversial things I posted on Facebook all summer was the statement “Passion is not a substitute for competence.” Some people seemed to be more hostile to that idea than to the idea of evolution.
Anti-intellectualism is certainly strong in the U.S. Back before Facebook I was part of a community on the photo sharing site flickr who shared and discussed photos of plants and gardens. There was a young man who volunteered some information about the flower parts which I couldn’t name. What a ruckus ensued! “Can’t we just enjoy the aesthetics without getting a botany lesson?” My stance was why can’t we have both? Turned out he was a postdoc at UCB in a specialty which I can’t name who propagated rare plants for sale at the botanical garden. In getting to know him since we live in the same town he often came to our garden/studio party and he frequently gifted me rarities and wonders. The man knew the functional requirements to cultivate and propagate plants but I found out he was also a talented painter on the side. He is now a professor of botany at a university on the island of Oahu associated the Lyon botanical garden. I will never understand people too petty to acknowledge and accept the knowledge we ourselves lack. My own interest in gardens mostly involves design and he aesthetics of combinations, but you can’t grow anything well without learning what it needs.
Thanks for sharing , Dennis. You have helped a lot of people with your story. Many do not understand that commonly used anti-depressant medications are not stimulants, and are not addictive (though may have some nasty side effects if tapered too quickly).
Thanks Phil.
You might be interested to know that every year I give a lecture
to the medical students on my experience with depression.
Interestingly, the Q&A always goes in the direction of theodicy.
And then I said to him what I believe needs to be said from the pulpit in every church, “It’s OK to get psychiatric help, and it’s OK to use medication. It is not against God’s will.”
This is how I wanted to answer @jammycakes question. Pastors and Christian laypeople without experience dealing with depression (their own or loved ones) may offer good advice and uplifting Bible verses, but a clinically depressed person cannot be counseled or “talked out” of the condition.
Indeed true, Bible verses should be used to help a person ON THE PATH TO DEALING with their depression, not as a band aid to cover up the huge blood gashing wound.
Sorry you had to go through that but very glad you found your way to accepting your condition and the solution. What you’ve written should be helpful to many coming to terms with a condition which is hard to recognize, at least the first time.
Most are from Christians who feel “guilty” and “damaged” for being on medications. I assure them that it is not against God’s will. Rather, we should praise the Lord that we live in a time when the blessing of psychiatric science can help heal our brains and our souls.
I’m glad you mentioned this at the end of your article. My mother was manic depressive and even though she saw a psychiatrist and was frequently medicated she often obsessed about deserving the suffering. I think she felt punished and wasn’t at all sure it was okay to thwart God’s will. Perhaps with a better educational foundation in theology it would have been easier for her to remain objective.
Anyone who has suffered deprivation of sleep will never take its importance for granted. I suffered from sleep apnea. When I was still teaching I reached a point where I could barely make it home without taking a nap. Sometimes I’d just lock the door and lay down on the floor for a nap. When I finally did a sleep study they said they never saw anyone go to sleep so fast, and this was in the early days when the sleep study was done in a lab with a lot of wiring. I got zero deep sleep and zero dream state along with hundreds of episodes of waking. When I changed my medical plan recently and had to satisfy Kaiser that I needed the machine, I had to laugh when I was asked how many nights I use the CPAP machine. My answer was just the nights I would actually sleep.
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“Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” -Colossians 4:6
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Seriously, rather than be frustrated in a church whose pastor stresses YEC issues, it is better to seek one that does see science as a problem, and where you can feel good about worship and fellowship.