My feeling of being condemned came not from a particular sin, but from my perpetual propensity to sin.
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(Love is the law of our constitution, without which we can render justice no more than a human being can walk a straight line in the dark. The eye is not simple and the body is not full of light)
My response:
There’s the word light., I still think Lucifer let light flow then blocked it, and that’s when Lucifer’s name changed.
Love is for Lucifer too., however both Lucifer and Jesus is the morning star. I still don’t understand star?
I seen white light in people radiate outward.
I don’t understand the word law.,
I still wonder how much is religion due to court system from Kings and rulers? Because it seems very similar to courts of kingdoms?
It’s as if religion and kingdoms are the same, and people interpret this as spirituality, the same way as people used the word sleep death.
And I know the spirit soul doesn’t sleep when leaving body, the spirit soul is awake.
Spirit soul doesn’t sleep.
One needs a physical body to sleep. One needs a physical brain to sleep and what happens is the spinal flued will enter the physicals brain that causes sleep - none of that happens when the spirit soul leaves the physical body.
So how is law love govern after spirit soul leaves physical body, spirit soul is awake and alive? Spirit soul can’t physically die? Spirit soul can block light or allow light. That I can relate with.
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(For we are responsible for the evil within ourselves and must kill it; for the good in our neighbor and must cultivate it. Only he can, in the name and in the power of God, kill the bad in himself; we can cultivate the good in him by being good to him over all the evil fog that comes between our love and his good)
my response:
I still think through relationship and learning in the midst of. So in the midst of my thinking and emotions I allow light teach me., it’s not how can I be perfect in ranks of evil good., for I am nothing with no identity., but I’m only middle,
Light is spiritual food, when allowing light feed us we’re fed., it’s not base on evil good., an evil person can allow light - this is going to be the most strangest writing ever.
First of all no one is evil in the sense of just do evil., as we’re responders, we react., so when someone does harm, there’s a lot that happens that led a person to do harm., at any time when this person does harm allows light feed, this person can go to light and feed from light, this person as did harm, might be confused, why can feed on light look at what all I did., this person might block light due to feeling not deserving to feed on light, but it is light who’s our identity and not what we do
light is healing and will take it all and use it all for our deeper understanding
I think what my question was for universal salvation christians is I was wondering is it a journey, and not a before after
before after sounds like not knowing light at all then Jesus causes an after.,
I think more in a journey.,
the pain for people could be, how dare this person who did harm able to drink from light, oh how unfair that is
but anyone can drink from light just as they are, and light heals and teaches, where then a person will understand and grow, understanding why doing harm, what is going on?
No one just does harm, also if we walk the shoes of that person it could be us then doing that harm
just the situations will cause us to be the one to do harm., maybe not the exact thing, but we’ll do something
how is it that a person is protected from never do harm if that person walks in those shoes?
See unconditional love is different then law love, I still don’t understand law love it still seems to be like those court kingdom, rule by kings rulers, that then govern for people to have as spirituality., and this craft gets more power as generations passes it down to the next generations
The reason why I share this here, is because the real me is spirit soul and not religion
as I look into religion I’m reminded kings rulers court systems
I really did see white light in people radiate outward. Light isn’t limit by what humans did. Light lives in all of us already., however many block light. Even I at times block light. So did lucifer block light.
I love music.
I learn English through music.
I allow light teach me. light feeds spirit heart burn fire
- The meaning of the Shankara mantra is:
I praise you Lord Shiva, the destroyer of all doubts, who is pure compassion and joy.
You are the Highest, the Lord of the whole universe.
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Psalm 82 is a neat picture of a heavenly court which frames Jesus’ ascension to become the King of Kings:
God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:
“How long will you judge unjustly
and show partiality to the wicked? Selah
Give justice to the weak and the fatherless;
maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute.
Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.”
They have neither knowledge nor understanding,
they walk about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.
I said, “You are gods,
sons of the Most High, all of you;
nevertheless, like men you shall die,
and fall like any prince.”
Arise, O God, judge the earth;
for you shall inherit all the nations!
Hard to believe that but I digress
That doesn’t justify the things we do.
Depends the damage. If it’s damage to oneself no. If it’s damage to others then if the damage is ireversable or the can’t be fixed(not only physical one,but mostly pshychological) .
A person’s psyche once damaged it cannot turn back easily unfortunately.
So yeah those who do this need to suffer for eternity?How? Strip them from everything. Love from God , socialazation with others etc etc. Let them suffer in loneliness. Let them take the damage they did to others.
Those sins are what I call “irreversible” especially if someone don’t ask for forgiveness from the other person. They are doomed. I’m as well unfortunately. Straight into hell. I’ve done this in the past and I’m not proud . Never found the person to ask for forgiveness though.
My brain and logic cannot comprehend a God who forgives everything sorry. It’s not just and it’s not logical.
All these fall under the presumption of free will of course.
I’m willing to hear counterarguments to mine. Although I find it hard to counter it
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My theology is different from everyone. Every Christian author assumes forgiveness from God for all sins. I don’t accept that.
You can’t go to the court and just say “oops sorry” and the judge will let you go no.
Some things are irreversible. Especially when talking about sin.
The verse about all sins forgiven is either a typo mistake or a though from the authors. I can’t believe Jesus said such thing period.
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Hello, @riversea ,
I encourage you to direct your reply to @Mervin_Bitikofer , with whom you were discussing these things, and who recommended MacDonald’s sermons.
I was acting as a librarian by providing links to German translations of the sermons for you. Beyond that I am not a part of this discussion.
Kendel
Yes, I recognize that.
It seems important to you to maintain that feeling of holding a unique position as well.
You are mistaken here. MacDonald assumes something quite different. Read him or not, it’s one to me. I can tell by your reply, however, that you haven’t.
I recommended MacDonald as a way to broaden your understanding of Christian views on salvation. You can broaden them or maintain your assumptions as you please. Again, it’s all one to me.
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Kritik / Irrtümer von Mooji [Criticism / Errors by Mooji]
- "Hier finden Sie Macken, Ungereimtheiten, Irrtümer, Probleme, Widersprüche, Fehler, Unvollkommenheiten von Meister Mooji
Mooji ist ein Erleuchteter. Trotzdem…
Kritik an Mooji: - "Here you will find quirks, inconsistencies, errors, problems, contradictions, mistakes, imperfections of Master Mooji
Mooji is an enlightened one. Despite it…
Criticism of Mooji:- "Kritik an Mooji: Er versteht den Gedanken-Mechanismus von Normalos nicht
Mooji, (wie viele andere Erleuchtete) nimmt sich und seine erreichte Fähigkeit bezüglich Gedanken als Referenz und hat kein Gespür mehr dafür, wie ein Nichterleuchteter funktioniert und was nur für ihn möglich ist und was nicht. Er erkennt nicht, dass seine Anweisungen bezüglich Gedankenbeobachtung unerfüllbar sind und ohne Nachhall ins Leere gehen müssen.
Mooji sagt einer Zuhörerin die nicht erfüllbare Anweisung: “Beobachte einfach deine Ego-Gedanken, und lass sie ohne Identifikation an dir vorbei fliessen”. Dies zu können ist für ihn als Erleuchteten scheinbar der Normalzustand, ohne Mühe machbar. Für Normalos aber unmöglich. Mooji kann sich nicht mehr hineinversetzen und erinnern, wie Unerleuchtete sind. Was Normalos nur können ist, die entweder-oder Möglichkeit. Entweder im Gedankenstrom eingetaucht sein (aber kein Bewusstsein darüber, dass gerade Denken geschieht), oder aber als Beobachter aufgetaucht, aber dann kann man sich der Gedanken nur als soeben geschehene Vergangenheit bewusst werden. “Ah, DAS hast du gerade gedacht”. Das ist eine Erinnerung an die Gedanken, aber nicht die Gedanken selber. Beides gleichzeitig zu können, ist nicht möglich - es ist eine Gnade, wenn es passiert, aber man es nicht “machen.” - Criticism of Mooji: He doesn’t understand the thought mechanism of Normalos
Mooji, (like many other enlightened ones) takes himself and his attained ability regarding thought as a reference and no longer has any sense of how a non-enlightened one works and what is only possible for him and what is not. He does not realize that his instructions regarding mind observation are unfulfillable and must go unheeded.
Mooji tells a listener the impossible directive: “Just watch your ego thoughts and let them flow past you without identification”. Being able to do this is apparently the normal state for him as an enlightened one, and it can be done without any effort. But impossible for normal people. Mooji can no longer empathize and remember what unenlightened people are like. What normal people can only do is the either-or option. Either immersed in the thought stream (but not aware that thinking is happening), or emerged as an observer, but then you can only become aware of the thoughts as the past that just happened. “Ah, THAT’s what you were thinking”. This is a reminder of the thoughts, but not the thoughts themselves. Being able to do both at the same time isn’t possible - it’s a mercy when it happens, but you can’t “do it.”
- "Kritik an Mooji: Er versteht den Gedanken-Mechanismus von Normalos nicht
- "Hier finden Sie Macken, Ungereimtheiten, Irrtümer, Probleme, Widersprüche, Fehler, Unvollkommenheiten von Meister Mooji
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Terry says: These words from scripture come to mind: “MENĒ, MENĒ, TEKĒL, UPHARSIN”.
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A quick Google search confirms MacDonald never held similar views to mine and I even found some sites claiming he was a universalist himself.
If you can repost the link that you think he shared similar views on salvation and sin as mine I will read it. My promise to you 
MacDonald never calls any sin “irreversible” or that can’t be forgiven. He follows mainstream Christian theology abiding the “all sins are forgiven”. At least that’s what I read on wiki about him. As I said some site even call him universalist (although he never claimed that himself)
I went from being an atheist to a theist again just because my mind and my psyche will literally break if there’s nothing beyond this world.
I can’t fathom injustice go unpunished and everyone doing what they want with no consequences. I just can’t. So because our world is like that( there are rarely consequences for sinning against one another) then there must be justice after.
It’s just a thing that my mind can’t go around… it tried and somehow convinced myself but later on it couldn’t continue. Don’t know if you get me.
So yeah it is VERY IMPORTANT to hold that view.
I don’t even label myself a Christian anymore. That’s how much I think of the group. Although I have come back (with my own theology) I refuse to identify with a group that is basically responsible for the 90% happening in the world. It is the first religion after all. A group so heartless it will treat their own members like human waste whenever they could.
Islam for example has more brotherhood than any Christian branch.Anyway enough venting
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- My latest message in this thread contains stuff from a German-language website introducing Matthias Pöhm and his latest book: “Enlightened but No Idea” [which I choose to paraphrase here: “Enlightened, But Clueless.”
- My initial, and only, goal in my latest message in this thread, was to share Pöhm’s criticism of Moojibaba. However,
- I took a moment just before writing this message to go to Pöhm’s website which offers an English translation of everything (or at least, pretty much everything) in that website. And this is the essence of Pöhm’s book:
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Are there any authorities we can believe in?
The author, himself a recognized authority in rhetoric and communication, has examined himself and found amazing things. He often only pretends to be the one who knows, but in reality however he is only a believer. Now he has examined in an exemplary manner the greatest authorities that humanity knows: the enlightened ones! He put their teachings on the weighing pan of substance and discovered…
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Are there any authorities we can believe in?
Enlightened people are fishing in muddy waters, like anyone else, and nobody is noticing it
Enlightened ones are regarded by their faithful followers as infallible saints.
This book does not have the simplistic approach that enlightened people just want to make money, have cult-like structures, have sex with dependents, and so on, but the author judges them based on their teaching. He starts from the premise that it is true what they’re trying to make us believe.
The result of his years of investigation is: A huge amount of hot air is sold, there is a huge amount of ego in the game. But the reverential worship by followers prevents anyone from realizing it. This concerns all the enlightened ones: including Ramana Maharshi, Buddha, Jesus, Eckhart Tolle, Osho, or Sai Baba.
The amazing thing is that this is true not only with regard to the enlightened ones, but with all the apparent authorities of this world. In reality nobody knows anything. All knowledge is based on arbitrarily defined systems (finances, happiness, nutrition, economics, enlightenment …) where with believed assumptions one pretends to be an “expert”.
If you examine the teachings of enlightened people word for word you discover: platitudes, ramble, general reflections, contradictions, believed theories, empty lines, invented imaginations.
- There in "a professional ‘inspirational speaker’s own words’ ", I read a confession of truth!
- And, I see–more clearly than ever–the flaw in his arument. The flaw, you say? Indeed, … the flaw. He lumped Jesus in with all the frauds. I know–without a doubt–that Jesus was, is, and always will be The Exception.
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There are laws of love, and we are to test ourselves against them to see whether or not we are truly loving and loving truly. That is made clear by Jesus in the four Gospels and also by the authors of the Epistles in the New Testament.
A quick and intuitive example: “You shall not steal.” That is a law, a law of love, mandated in the Bible, one of the Ten Commandments. If you are stealing from someone, are you loving them in your heart or being loving in your actions?
When Jesus was asked what the greatest commandment was, do you know how he answered?
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Considering what some of these frauds get up to, it’s almost an inconceivable mistake. Mistake so great, it makes me doubt anything else being said.
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- The really funny thing, IMO, is that Poehm writes a book that he says is “the be-all, end-all” book about “the Clueless Englightened”, and in that book, he basically says: “Take it from me, I’m an expert on inspirational speakers, and I’m telling you that all inspirational speakers are frauds, because they’re “bags of hot air” and clueless. So, buy my book for 19 Euros and know what I know.” LOL! What a great ploy: “Every expert is a fraud. I should know, I’m an expert and I wrote the best book about them. Send me money for my book.”
- Maybe next, he’ll write a book about the Clueless audience and how to get rich off of them.
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Wouldn’t that make him a fraud then too? Shooting himself in the foot, don’t you think?lol
How to get rich? Write a book on how to get rich 
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It would indeed.
Not really, he wrote the be-all, end-all book on them, and … sold it for 19 Euros/book.
Why not? If he gets rich off the first book, he’s only going to get richer off the second book.
- As the saying goes, “There’s a sucker born every minute.”
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It’s still up in the thread (slide #59) where it was before. I recommend starting with “Divine Burning.”
To be frank, God’s existence is not dependent on your felt need for something beyond this world. As @Klax has pointed out numerous times, yearning doesn’t make it so. If you believe in God, excellent. If you don’t, He’ll still be there.
Actually, what it sounds like you describe you desire is karma: graceless, merciless, absolute justice. But consider that if this desire is fulfilled, you too, will be a subject to such justice.
Again, yearning doesn’t make it so. But if karma is the reality, you may wish to live like it is.
If you take a look at “Divine Burning” you may find more than what you were looking for.
At this point the discussion (as such often do) seems like choosing from a catalog of options that seem to suit one’s taste and fit nicely. Not a matter of faith. That’s a different issue all together.
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