Dying in the Name of Vaccine Freedom

True that they can spread it, but not true that it is just a much, since a much smaller portion of the vaccinated have clinical infection. Sober drivers have more wrecks than drunk drivers, but they are a lot less likely to have wrecks in proportion to their numbers. Admittedly, not a perfect analogy.

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What is classified as a “clinical infection” and how does the vaccine prevent that? So far all I see evidence of a vaccine doing, is reducing symptoms and still spreading it. What makes it spread less?

The unvaccinated have a higher viral load than the vaccinated, thus are more likely to spread covid. Its that simple. No its even simpler: the vaccine is proven to save lives, reduce the spread of covid, reduce the possibility of viral mutation, and prevent lifetime disability.

The vaccine is free, safe, effective, available everywhere. Its a no brainer. Why this is an issue drives me nuts.


I think you mean sober drivers have fewer wrecks

It drives me nuts also, and it’s a short drive. btw, welcome!


Just that basis alone is enough to warrant comprehensive mask mandates, not even considering all the good reasons for vaccines.


Thanks. I love BioLogos forums.


Glad you are posting. Always good to have a rational voice here.

If masks work…But again, they are not needed outside nor on airplanes, as it doesn’t matter if you have it or not, you won’t spread it due to the massive air exchange.

According to the WHO the virus spreads via air particles and all you have to do is walk outside on a cold day with a mask on to see all the air that escapes from the mask and how much of that that can easily go into your eyes and infect you.

If it was true and the virus is airborne, we would need to all wear n95 masks (properly) and wear goggles. I am not against that, if it were possible, but it isn’t really. So there is no need to inconvenience people when it is not helping anything or any one.

The former president was the most protected and isolated guy, and he still got it. It has to be airborne. There wouldn’t let infected people near him to get any droplets on him. That is the main reason I am with the WHO on it being airborne.

Yes, I believe it is aerosolized. Yes, masks do help significantly. I think you have some more @still_learning to do. Why do you think surgeons wear masks?! To protect others. But masks also protect the wearer by significantly reducing the viral load they might inhale. Read more, and count the engines.


Ok, that makes sense. I would just clarify that to say that the unvaccinated AND those without antibodies…

I could be a little more on board with antibody testing allowing you to opt out of an other wise mandatory vaccination.

Are you sure the vaccine doesn’t cause the mutation?

Again, why did the Spanish flu mutate to multiple variants? They didn’t have a vaccine for that.

This is not why people refuse to get it. Again, I think a different approach would result in more getting it.

Wearing a mask won’t save the world, but it will help. And its a simple mindless thing. Its like flossing your teeth. We just do it and get on with our lives. Unlike flossing, a mask contributes to the well being of our communities.


What about reducing the viral load they get in other mucus membranes? Like their eyes? Who knows what other sicknesses they have that spread via droplets. I don’t want to catch a cold either. If I am in a sterile place like a hospital working on a patient I know nothing about in close proximity for long periods of time, I would want to wear a mask too.

“This is not why people refuse to get it. Again, I think a different approach would result in more getting it.”

Well, what approach would that be? I think my statement that the vaccine is free, safe, effective and available is pretty compelling.


Work on @stilllearning. Shall we talk about aeronautics and surface areas… and the differences in surface areas between mucus membranes in the mouth and nose, nasal passages and throat and lungs. Oh yeah, and eyes.

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What I said above. Tell people that there is a spike protein in the vaccine, it possibly will make you sick or kill you even though the chances are very low. And this is the same spike protein in the covid, but controlled. So if this more controlled version harms you, just know that the uncontrolled version would do worse. It is a great symptom reducer, though you can still spread it to others. If you don’t get it, you are increasing the (very low anyway) risk of getting seriously ill.

You would still have some that wouldn’t want it, because there is a very low risk of harm from it (depending on age and other factors). But I bet you many more people would get it if you said that. As opposed to saying, you want to kill my grandma if you don’t get it, or threaten their jobs if they don’t get it. Now they start to think “since when did the govt care about my personal health so much”? If this is spread just as much vaccinated or not, why are they so intent on me being vaccinated. It breeds mistrust.

This isn’t really the forum for it…or thread…But sure, you can pm me about a question you may have on it.

Or are you weirdly referring to a different thread, in which I made a reading mistake in skimming an article? And I guess my eyes aren’t that great or my screen is really small, because I only count 1 engine that I can see in that picture.

Does that 1 mistake I made in a different thread mean you can discredit me on and now everything I say is flawed due to that? Is that why you brought that up here?

That is a good point. I guess it would be a factor of time. Since there is less surface area, it would take more time to get that higher viral load through the eyes.

But I don’t think non-n95 masks filter any aerosolized particles. So would that not make non-n95 masks pointless?

This is what we should tell people? Seriously?

They actually have more, since there are so many more sober drivers. And in areas where the percentage of vaccinated individuals is high, the number of those infected who have been vaccinated may grow to be higher, which you can see if a population were 100% vaccinated, then all those with new infections would be in the vaccinated group. It would be nice if we were there, as the hospitals would be nearly empty of Covid patients.


Yes, they do. Surgeon’s masks are like 99% (at least that’s what the box I gave to our county first responders near the end of March, '20, said), but not as snuggly fitting.

Not at all.

Keep learning.

That was a reference to wings and surface area which was a segue into the surface area of mucus membranes. I guess I got ahead of you.

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