If your hang glider falls from the sky, entropy will increase whether or not you reject that claim. But you do you.
Contravention of natural law is miraculous. Who here has disagreed with that, certainly not I?
2 Likes
The second law has nothing to do with either of those â it says nothing about movement to more complx forms and it says nothing about human âenlightenmentâ.
Would you PLEASE stop the lying already?!? TE isnât theology at all, and I have never said so â that is a false accusation you keep making despite having been corrected by several of us here.
Right â because Genesis 1 isnât about science in the first place.
That has nothing to do with thermodynamics for a simple reason: thermodynamics is about closed systems, and the moment God intervenes in the universe it is not at that moment a closed system. Thermodynamics could only apply to God if He was part of the universe, so your claims about God and thermodynamics are erroneous at root.
2 Likes
Good point, though I think that cellular metabolism would be a better example since that is where heat is generated.
What Adam doesnât get is that the second law of thermodynamics is no different than the law of gravity: gravity in simple terms says things go âdownhillâ, and the second law says that energy âgoes downhillâ.
No, because the moment they talk about miracles or the Incarnation or Resurrection they are no longer talking about science for the simple reason that each of those requires a system that is not closed. Thermodynamics assumes the universe is a closed system, but that is an assumption; it cannot be proven. To deny that the Christian model is viable they must first prove that the universe is closed and then that God does not exist.
It only does that if you claim that the Resurrection, etc., are natural processes.
5 Likes
Thatâs an argument from silence.
I think A&E knew very well who they were dealing with, the enemy of God, yet they listened and believed the devil, okay my counter argument from silence 
I mean, itâs unlikely God did not prepare them and left them as an unprepared easy prey. Okay, not in the text either.
Itâs more likely A&E exactly understood what death was because they immediately (as God said) experienced it, kicked out of heaven away from the presence of the Lord landing on a hostile world. They must have cried a million of tears. Itâs more that they did not understand (realized) what physical death meant, that moment came when Cain murdered Able.
Sure, natural evolved Earth needs death as a necessity, without insect death the planet would be one big unbearable buzzing place.
Sure, I believe that as well but I donât see a conflict with what I wrote above. Following Jesus on the cross when He said to the criminal next to Him - Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise. implies we (those who are in Christ) are going temporarily to Paradise until the new The New Heaven and the New Earth are created.
The argument is about hermeneutics, not any particular text.
It is an argument from honesty, based in the recognition that every culture, geographic region, age, denomination, individual with different experience and assumptions brings something different to the texts.
The argument is that you are reading the text in one of a multitude of ways of approaching the text, one that incorporate your own assumptions into that reading.
Accept it or not.
Thatâs all one to me.
But your arguing for any one particular, assumption-laden, culturally-, denominationally-, scientifically-, world-view-informed reading of a text that is so remote to us will continue to be a chasing after the wind. Vanity.
Belief in germs also impacts theological beliefs of some groups. The shape of the Earth impacts the theological beliefs of some groups, including some groups of Christians who think the Bible requires the Earth to be flat.
Do you have any scientific reasons for this disagreement?
1 Like
If you want to invoke a whole host of ongoing miracles to make entropy go away, that is your choice. It just seems wholly unnecessary and not supported by any scripture. Entropy is not mentioned in the Bible anywhere.
1 Like
The second law of thermodynamics is as responsible for life as it is death. Life is the process of harvesting energy from the breakdown of one molecule to drive a chemical reaction elsewhere, and this requires the existence of entropy. Death happens when an organism is no longer able to keep this up. The same concepts apply to organisms that live just a day, live to be a century old, or live to be thousands of years old in the case of some clonal plant species.
You started out as a single cell, developed in your motherâs womb, and then matured into adulthood. At every step, entropy was required.
5 Likes
Thank you.
.
And any way of reading it that incorporates someoneâs assumptions will miss much, even most, of the original message.
The time to âbring something different to the textsâ is after ascertaining the original message.
Or from another perspective . . .
God created A&E and DID NOT put them in a world where death is a necessity, that came after they rebelled.
1Cor 15:26 - The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
We are here because of the Fall and we die because of it.
And to stay on topic, no entropy in Eden.
No vanity involved.
Human death. The reason they didnât face death in the Garden was that they had the Tree of Life.
Then either God used miracles to make basic physics and body functions work (all of which occur naturally now), or Adam and Eve were spiritual beings.
For example, the Krebs cycle which is vital for turning carbohydrates into useable energy:
The arrows only go in those directions because of entropy. If there was no entropy then the cycle would not work because the reverse reaction would be just as likely as the forward reaction. Adam and Eve, if they were physical human beings, could not have survived if not for a continuous miracle that exactly mimics entropy.
I suspect most people donât understand that entropy is essential to life. Without it, life doesnât work.
1 Like
I just noticed something: among the multitude of meds Iâve taken, several have ended in âfumarateâ, two in âmalateâ, and one in âoxaloacetateâ; I also had a least one that ended in âcitrateâ.
Shows how much Iâve forgotten that I didnât associate those meds with the Krebs cycle!
I look with amazement at the big bang (which I believe is currently the best scientific explanation), a small hot dense exploding bubble of ~2cm² and how that could create the universe and all within it. I call that a miracle too.
Yep. Again. That is certainly one way to read the text.
Enzymes are vital for the Krebs Cycle as they catalyze each step, ensuring the cycle proceeds efficiently.
Biological Systems: In biological systems, the increase in entropy is balanced by the maintenance of order within the cell. Cells use the energy released from the Krebs Cycle to perform various functions, maintaining a delicate balance between order and disorder.
1 Like
I am curious about the other way(s).
Itâs important for me.