You may equate “spiritual” with magic and fantasy but I do not
Magic is all about keeping people from understanding what is really happening – useful for entertainment and manipulation. Therefore a spiritual (= magical) understanding is a contradiction in terms.
My use of “spiritual” is for a greater reality beyond what is governed by the space-time mathematical laws of nature (which care nothing about what we want or believe). Thus the objective nature of scientific inquiry doesn’t apply. And for this reason conclusions people come to regarding this unavoidably varies.
The spiritual is indicated by the subjective participation requirement of life where what we want and believe is central. This suggests a spiritual understanding consists of wisdom concerning the choices we make and desires we pursue. Are some more worthwhile than others? Which make for a better life?
Those who love things like star trek and star wars will make this the reality they pursue and believe in, and thus disregard discoveries in science which contradict what they want. And we see the same thing in religion, where people choose to believe in a fantasy that disregards everything we have discovered about reality in the lives we live. It is not the sort of religion I can see much value in.
I do recognize that science cannot help us with life choices and subjectivity is unavoidable. I have chosen the Christian and Biblical perspective as one I have found to be most worthwhile to me personally (embracing the subjective by doing so). But it only works for me because it is a vast spectrum of belief in which you can find an understanding compatible with discoveries of science and our experience of reality. I see no profit in choosing to live in a fantasy world at odds with these things.
Choosing fantasy over reality seems a bit like vanity to me. It is like demanding your favorite flavor of ice cream when that flavor is not on the menu.
But I don’t equate “spiritual” with magic and fantasy.
That’s a misunderstanding.
Spiritual understanding (in my view) is a try to learn and understand God why He does the things He does and has done and He is going to do and I have a lot of questions, most of them answered in the Scriptures as we have them. Still I have a lot of questions that remained unanswered. And as it is in science a good question (note Newton’s apple) can / may bring answers. So here is one of mine -
two people who I did not know had sex and there I was, did I have a choice? No. Then in childhood I learned about heaven and hell, the latter being a terrible prospect. I also learned that one day I am going to die, another terrible prospect.
Fast forward, 24 years old, I became a Christian and started to read the Bible and I found the answer on [1] in Gen 2-3, the Fall, okay all clear. But time passed by and a question came up, not answerable from Scripture : why did I (and everybody else) did not get the same chance as A&E, for certain I was not planning to eat from the forbidden tree and happily could stay in Paradise with the Lord without being born and die on Earth. Eventually I found a possible answer that made sense, solved all my other questions.
At conversion at my 24th year I learned 3 things
. God exists
. God is love, I was baptized in His love, 2 times with an interval of ~10-15 minutes and the 2 experiences never repeated during the last 50 years.
. God is Holy.
It changed my life instantly, 180 degrees.
This is my base, I think and reason from this knowledge.
I mean, if various readings of Genesis are important to you personally, then you have research to get to.
Your research goals are not mine. And arguing the validity of one or the other with you is not what my time is for. These are things that experts in the field have already covered. Go check their work out, if the matter is important to you.
If we took away entropy then you wouldn’t have enzymes to begin with since protein folding is governed by entropy. Proteins would spontaneously change to non-functional conformations that are lower in entropy.
Remember, the topic of this thread is what would happen if entropy was not a thing. If this was the case, then chemical reactions would just as like move towards lower entropy as they would higher entropy as we define it in our current entropic universe.
But that is starting with an answer before you even ask the questions involved. What is this God people believe in? Can I attach any meaning to this word? And are these books written by people using this of any value? And since God is spirit, then it seems you have to already have a meaning for the word spiritual.
It is contrary to logic that existence can be a choice. The only choice is what to do with the existence you have been given. The perverse choice against existence and life is the essence of the only meaning I can give to the word “sin.” Thus sin consists of the self-destructive habits I see in human lives all around me. Other uses of the word sin look like manipulation and the misuse of religion for power over others.
Why?
The only choice we have is what to do with the life we are given. Why should we obsess over things outside this scope? Sure we have an instinctual fear of death – it is only natural. But this only means we should avoid things which threaten death when we have no good reason for them.
Not only do we not get to choose whether to exist but neither do we get to choose the circumstances. And I don’t think that choice is any more logically possible than the first one. We cannot choose when we do not exist, and neither can we choose the circumstances when we have no knowledge or understanding about circumstances or their meaning. Our choice is only what to do with what we are given. Seeking understanding is a good early choice of things to do. The quest for understanding has certainly been a focus of my life. But I eventually learned that understanding is not the key to salvation/happiness. Nevertheless seeking understanding remains my persistent habit.
The meaning people find in the story of A&E varies a great deal. I have certainly found a meaning to that story which is different than what many have decided upon.
When we choose between two alternatives, and decide one of these is better than the other. It is unwise to jump to the conclusion that the everything in that choice is the best possible way to go and live your life. This is unavoidable because our knowledge and understanding is always limited. We do the best we can. And thus the greater wisdom is to keep examining our choices because a devil may be in the details.
The cell and its sources of energy are one system so far as entropy is concerned, and as the Krebs Cycle progresses, the overall entropy of the system always increases. Localized order is always bought at the greater expense of the system as a whole.
The point I am making (@T_aquaticus) is that biological systems are more complicated and a simple appeal to entropy often misses this. From the internet:
Gibbs free energy (G) is a thermodynamic quantity that is crucial in understanding biochemical reactions and processes in biology. It helps predict whether a reaction will occur spontaneously under constant temperature and pressure. Here’s how it applies to biology:
Gibbs Free Energy in Biological Systems
Definition: Gibbs free energy is defined as G = H - TS, where H is enthalpy, T is temperature, and S is entropy.
Spontaneity: A reaction is spontaneous if the change in Gibbs free energy (ΔG\Delta G) is negative. This means the reaction can proceed without the input of external energy.
Coupled Reactions: In cells, many reactions that are not spontaneous (ΔG>0\Delta G > 0) are coupled with spontaneous reactions (ΔG<0\Delta G < 0) to drive them forward. For example, the hydrolysis of ATP (adenosine triphosphate) is often coupled with other reactions to make them energetically favorable.
Metabolic Pathways: Gibbs free energy changes are used to understand and regulate metabolic pathways. Enzymes catalyze reactions by lowering the activation energy, but the overall direction and feasibility of metabolic pathways are governed by changes in Gibbs free energy.
Equilibrium: At equilibrium, ΔG=0\Delta G = 0, meaning there is no net change in the concentrations of reactants and products. Biological systems are often in a state of dynamic equilibrium, where reactions are continuously occurring but the overall concentrations remain constant.
Examples in Biology
ATP Hydrolysis: The hydrolysis of ATP to ADP and inorganic phosphate (ΔG≈−30.5\Delta G \approx -30.5 kJ/mol) releases energy that can be used to power various cellular processes, such as muscle contraction, active transport, and biosynthesis.
Photosynthesis: In photosynthesis, light energy is used to drive the synthesis of glucose from carbon dioxide and water. The overall process has a positive ΔG\Delta G, but it is driven by the input of light energy.
Cellular Respiration: The breakdown of glucose in cellular respiration has a negative ΔG\Delta G, indicating that it is a spontaneous process that releases energy, which is then used to produce ATP.
Understanding Gibbs free energy in biological systems helps explain how cells harness and utilize energy to maintain life processes. It provides a framework for studying the energetics of biochemical reactions and the efficiency of metabolic pathways.
Biochemistry is complicated, but it doesn’t take much of a deep dive into these systems to know that life would be impossible if Gibbs free energy was no longer a determinant in which reactions happen spontaneously. Essentially, all reactions would have equal probability.
What i would like to include though is that we currently reflect on a creation corrupted by sin. I say that because that is what the bible theme is in, id suggest, its entirely. The entire plan of salvation is about that theme and how God is working to restore all creation back unto Him.
Now some here might claim that restoring creation back to God doesnt mean the earth has to change…that the current earth is perfectly fine.
Trouble is, if humans are not allowed to look upon God and live, and Revelation 21 talks of a new heavens and a new earth…
I think its pretty obvious what the outcome in real terms is going to be…a new creation. (and lets face it, most Christians believe we are going to be given new bodies yes?)
Can you explain God in entropic terms given God is timeless? How do you make calculations in physics without time? Without time how do we measure the effects of energy?
So how does that statement actually work in biblical terms given that in Revelation 21:4 it says that in the new heaven and new earth there will be no more pain, suffering, tears, no more death? Wheres the entropy in that biblical notion?
I recognise that an answer may be “well God created in heavens and the earth in 7 days didn’t he”. But you don’t believe that from your perspective, so I’m not sure its an argument you can put forward to support the opposite claim…evidence of the other sides claim doesnt prove yours when you do not believe the other sides evidence is true.