Actually for me personally by the time we get out of the beginning of genesis I mostly lean towards the stories being true. I do believe in the supernatural and in angels, demons, and fallen angels and so on. I don’t live under the paradigm that everything in scripture can be explained away scientifically.
So I do believe that the angel of the lord came down to Abraham and later went to Lot and saved them from destruction.
I’ll have to look for that group. I’ve never heard that particular belief. Not even when discussing things with Jews. Definitely interested in it though.
I agree with you on these things. (Not the angel of the lord though). But yeah you were the one who changed my mind about adam and eve beign literal mi Krumm so i thank you and i definitely do believe the majority of stories were true. Thanks
No they couldn’t Nick. Not rationally. Any more than any other culture’s four thousand year old stories could be.
Yes they could. Its like saying that Jesus was the only person with that name. OF COURSE HE WASNT
Er, how? And how?
Why cant they be real? Couldn’t God rule out a couple so to make a covenant with them? Couldnt there be an Abraham? Jonah i believe is a parable but couldnt be a prophet who could have been eaten by a whale then died and then ressurected? As for the exodus part. Read my question on the exodus on this forum . People provided good answers as for the date of the exodus which is mistaken most times. As for the books of kings there are evidence they existed. For example David. If you disregard the prophets existance such as Isaiah then i think you fall into the gnostic part. Because then Jesus doesnt make much sense i guess
They’re real stories Nick. Not real history. Not real archaeology. Not real palaeontology. Not real geology. Not real biology. Not real physics. Not real science. If they are real, so are everyone else’s. What may well be real, is that despite them being real stories, really made up, thousands of years after they were set once upon a time, is that, as in a single human, divinity shines through them. Despite them.
Man your are only blah blah. History tells us the kings of the book of Kings. Archeology tells us of some cities mentioned and for the temple as well as the time of david. Biology was not even existed back then. Geology is limited but tells us something. About the flood there was actually a flood a small one thought close to middle east. Ill have to look up the article as to potray the evidence. Although a small one for then it coukd have been like the end of the world. Not like they traveled much. Again you discredit the OT, something gnostics did. I suggest look to these stories how the actual Jews explains them . Although a Christian i found really good answers in some of them by vey knowledgeable rabbis.
Did anyone else out there have an honest, seriously grieved feeling, rise up in you after reading this disrespect towards what Jesus would call “As It Is Written”? Is this the overall attitude of the heart of many or most on this forum? Jesus said every stroke and letter must be fulfilled. Surely this is not considered a proper attitude of Children Of The Most High God.
I did not find it disrespectful just incorrect. Same as I don’t find a literal interpretation of genesis 1-2 disrespectful just also incorrect.
Rationally, scientifically, literarily, culturally, psychologically, sociologically, anthropologically, archaeologically, palaeontologically, geologically, biologically, cosmologically, physically and theologically incorrect how?
None of the single source, supernatural, exceptionalist, mythic claims of Jewish legend is real. Or if they are, so are everyone else’s. The fact that some of the claims are dressed up with the names of cities, kings (unlike Darius the Mede) known to the writers and real history has no significance whatsoever. It’s all a great adventure in missing the point to make any of it literal.
This is a false dichotomy that completely misses the boat when it comes to God’s will, which is more appropriately described by the plural, i.e. wills:
Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. (Gen 1:3)
We find an example of God’s perceptive will in his desire for our salvation:
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. (2 Pet. 3:9, NKJV) Read gingerly this intentional double negative: God does not decree that nobody should perish. (He could, but he doesn’t. Why? I don’t know) According to this verse, He desires (wills) that all should repent. But alas, we don’t.
and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, a thing which I never commanded or spoke of, nor did it ever enter My mind; (Jer. 19:5, NASB)
The sense in which God ordains everything that comes to pass is a recognition that in his sovereignty he either decrees (and it happens) or he doesn’t decree it but allows it to happen (but he could prevent it.) Climate change would, in my speculative opinion, fall under the umbrella of the latter.
So do you believe the same about Jesus? If so how ? We could say the same with Jesus. You ignore historical facts. Better believe that scienceific theories are just made up of an elite system to rule the world lol. You are rulling out the supernatural yet you claim yourself Christian. You are either a hypocrite or an gnostic of some sort. (Or you are an atheist Christian,in that case theres no point in the discussion)
Lol ok then. You know there are “myths” of other cultures that turned out real? Not supernatural though
A final thought. We can say the same with everyone. That for example Socrates actions that are listed in history are “edited”. If you disagree how do you know? Claiming Christian Klax and rulling out the supernatural then believing in it again when Jesus appears in the NT is plainly idiotic. Im sorry for the bad words here and my passionate language but this is strait up insanity or hypocrisy. I hope you reexamine these things youve said.
And this is totally irrelevant. Of course neither the prophets nor the apostles or any biblical writer had a modern view of cosmology. That is not a problem because they stuck to descriptive language not scientific text book language. They said, for example, that the sun rose (as we still do). They seem to have included bats in the family of birds because they were not beholden to modern scientific taxonomy, and they were describing, broadly, flying things. If the Bible contained a definitive scientific statement that the earth was flat or that it was at the center of the cosmos, that would be a serious game-changing problem. Fortunately the Bible has only one definitive scientific statement, ironically its first three words. (On that account, the score is Bible 1: Einstein 0).
What’s Jesus got to do with it? I ignore NO historical facts whatsoever under any circumstances. Ever. Show me where I have.
Jesus was historical. David was as well. You can say the same about Jesus. You ruled out the supernatural possibility between David and God so you coukd say that Jesus was a mere man nothing more. A crazy man who got lunished for speaking against some old men high in the Jweish hierarchy nothing more. Move along
Same here could applied for Jesus. He was a mere man and a legend got connected to him.
“Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” -Colossians 4:6
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