What parts of the bible are supposed to be taken literally? Did the ancient Jews understood the Genesis narative as literal ? Did they read the other stories such as Job and Jonah etc as literal believing that big giant monsters existed?
I think you mean historical, not literal. Literal is the opposite of figurative, not the opposite of fiction.
Yeah i guess.i mostly mean if they were believing in those stories as beign real if that makes sense
Jews were all over the place just like Christians in doctrine. Talmuds show that some believed it to be literal and some being it to be nonliteral. They even had different ideas on what books belonged. Different sects had different thoughts.
Thanks mi Krumm . So they had different views entirely about the bible. But how did Jesus preached? I mean if one sect didnt accept the prophetic books then how did Jesus preached to them about the kingdom of God?
I would say it’s similar to what we have now. There is a certain main vein they all shared. But all it takes is a 10% difference in views to have very different ones. Methodists, Churches of Christ, Baptists and Mormons all probably view the majority of scripture the same yet the differences they have create a very distinct set of doctrine.
All we really know is what we have. We know we don’t have all the books and that some were lost. We know that Jesus did a lot more than what’s in scripture. But it’s impossible to know for certain if Jesus believed it was all literal or not. I have to assume he did not believe it was all literal because he quoted Jonah which for the marjory of time has always been viewed as a fictional tale revealing the truth about god’s grace and mercy even for the gentiles. But ultimately it does not really matters. Jesus was not all knowing and would have had a similar worldview to the other Jewish people of that time.
What books were lost? I never heard of that one. And i have heard of two sects only. The one who accepted an afterlife and the other who didnt.
Also there are many differences between mormons and christians. They believe that they themselves can become gods and believe satan to be the brother of christ. I wont even get into their theology on Jesus . But the Jews didnt had any debates on that. They did believed in God no debates on that
Well concerning the Old Testament the book of Jasher is mentioned and we no longer have it. In Jude it mentions Michael and Satan arguing over the body of Moses which is not in any old
Testament story and also it mentions the men that Enoch prophesied about and we don’t have that book either.
You can research some good papers on scholars highlighting apostles quoting each other but that the quote is not found in the books we have.
There were dozens of Jewish sects. Such as those that stored the Dead Sea scrolls, and just all kinds. Wikipedia actually has several good things on these subjects.
As stated, even Mormons believe the majority of what others believe. It’s a few distinct differences that set everything apart.
Many of their concerns over Jesus comes from the doctrine surrounding the angel of the lord which was also god, and someone talked as first person indicating it was god. So since the angel of the lord is god, some believe that means the Holy Spirit that conceived Jesus also was the same power that conceived all angels and that makes them all siblings. However, The angel of the lord was eventually manifested in flesh. But I don’t have a opinion on any of that because I’ve not studied it.
For me saying that satan is the brother of Jesus and that Jesus was “one” of the three gods it makes it problematic. Let alone i aint gonna believe that God himself appeared to a man telling him to create a new religion and write a new revalation from him. Thats plainly stupid. But thats a whole different debate. Now back to the question. If there were a lot of sects all having their own opinions on what books would have been to the torah how did Jesus mentioned these stories if he knew they were sects who didnt believe in some?
Among other things already mentioned, what they also believe -
- God once was a sinner dwelling on earth.
- We all are pre-existing spirits send here to ascend and become gods like Him.
Those are biggies.
In reference to Jesus having the same world view as everyone else, so therefore He spoke from that position, you may want to read this verse. Also remember He proclaimed the Kingdom of Heaven, not the kingdoms of this world. He had a Kingdom of Heaven world view.
John 8:28"When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am [the one I claim to be] and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29 The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him."
Jesus said only what the Father taught Him. He was not ignorant of His Father or His Fathers words. What Jesus said always pleased the Father, so He did not speak error.
So Jesus believed them to be real?
Plus gentlemen please reply to the question please . I dont want another debate here. Im fine with one or two responses on a post but not a full debate. Thanks
Yes Jesus preached what God lead him to preach. Which is by the same spirit that he led the prophets to preach. The prophets still believed the sun revolved around a flat earth.
Where did you get that the prophets believed the earth was flat? Just share some verses if you can.Thanks in advance
Here is what the Father told Jesus was real about Job.
Matt 12:38 Teacher, we want to see a miraculous sign from you." They wanted to see a miracle so this is the miracle that Jesus associated His resurrection with.
39 He answered, "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
But just in case you think Jonah was still just a story, Jesus continues to say this about the people in Nineveh.
41 The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now one greater than Jonah is here." So now Jesus says the real people of Nineveh that the real Jonah preached to will condemn that generation of Jesus time.
And just in case you are still wondering if Jonah and Nineveh are real, Jesus uses the Queen of the South who went to listen to Solomon’s wisdom. I don’t think anyone questions her being a real person.
42 The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon’s wisdom, and now one greater than Solomon is here."
So, yes, without a doubt, Jesus knew Jonah was real. His Father told Him so.
The description based off of the Torah is a flat earth. Never use globe to explain it. Additionally, you can see that as the common thought through thousands of years of writings. Until around 600bc , the majority view was earth is flat.
This article sites a few sources with various beliefs on views. Mostly if earth was covered by a dome.
Also to note, you won’t find a single verse mentioning a sphere like earth. What you find is a circle earth which was a different word meaning like a plate which is flat.
And the book of Jonah also states this in Hebrew.
That the ship had thoughts. A thinking ship. It’s point to highlight that even a ship knew Jonah was wrong.
The fish was a male when he swallowed Jonah, and after Jonah was resurrected and spit out the fish became a female.
That heartless Jonah cried over a plant but rejoiced in the slaughter of hundreds.
The Persian language used shows it happened later on, well after the Assyrian city was in shambles. Not to mention the joke about its size.
That the Assyrians were so dumb they could not even tell their left hand from their right hand.
All clear signs of a satirical fictional story.