Alien Life And Jesus

Not true. No Israelites/chosen people are around in Genesis 6. Later eras identified the “sons of God” as renegade angels.

Glad you asked. “Sons of God” can’t be referring to people since the passage is talking about the creation of the earth, when God laid the earth’s foundation.

Yes true… and backed up by actual passages (I provided 6 of them) from the Bible, compared to 1 passage in Job which does not say that these are angels. The sons of God are ALWAYS used to refer to God’s chosen people in both the OT and NT. You have yet to show us one passage which actually supports your claim that “sons of God” EVER refers to angels completely contradicting where the Bible says that the angels are nothing of the kind.

Yes this is your personal conclusion which you are coming to from fitting these passages of Job into your own philosophical/theological framework. But nobody has to accept the premises which you have, let alone believe that this portion of Job is anything more than a fictional pretext for the theological discussion which follows and thus something where such deduction might even be valid.

God’s Chosen People are the Jews and they simply aren’t around in Genesis 6! There are no Jews until God calls Abraham the Chaldean.

Job 38:4-7

“Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
6 On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
7 while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?

The NIV translates Sons of God as angels. It’s a reasonable translation. God is talking to uppity Job here–pointing out that Job wasn’t around when God created the earth. Are you saying that people were actually around at this time? Maybe God didn’t notice them?

That is another claim not actually in the Bible. I see the Bible speaking of God chosen people (Isaiha 43:20) but not giving the Israelites an exclusive title as such. We call them that because of the promise in Genesis 12. But in the whole Bible, we see that God’s chosen people is something which changes or he chooses different people for different things. Adam and Eve were chosen. Noah was chosen. It was the choosing of Abraham which is the beginning of the Jewish people. But later we see God choosing Gentiles in Christianity.

Yes the NIV often inserts it own interpretation into the text.

Various writers in the Bible speak of people existing from the beginning. I don’t believe that is actually the case, but the writer of Job may have been speaking in that same way. The point is that nothing in the book of Job says that “sons of God” means angels, unlike all the passages which I gave you where it does tell you what the “sons of God” refers to and this is not angels.

In fact in Ephesians 1:4 I can demonstrate both points: “even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.” Here Christians are chosen and according to the author we are chosen before the beginning of the world.

So as it couldn’t just be a three, four thousand year old figure of speech, it has to be incubi or our ET ancestors? How did they get here? As interstellar travel is absolutely impossible it must be fertile male demons. Not poetry. And this has what to do with the Kingdom of God?

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I’m not insisting that there is no life elsewhere, but I’m not going to be at all surprised if additional info and research points to it being less likely than some religiously demand.

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What do you do with Deuteronomy 7:6?

For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession.

 
And 7:7?

The Lord did not set his affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples.

 
Paul more than faintly echoes it in the NT, as well.

the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption to sonship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised!

Romans 9:4-5

I didn’t say they were not chosen. I said they were chosen.

I am just putting it in the context of all the others it says God has chosen.

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For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession.

Deuteronomy 7:6

No matter how many other ‘chosens’ there are, the Bible really does undeniably say (except by you, I guess) that Israel is his chosen people.

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Let’s put it another way…

There is a difference between saying “apples are fruit” and “fruit are apples.” To be sure the Israelites were chosen to be God’s people – no doubt about that. What the Bible does not say is that the chosen people are the Israelites. On the contrary, in Ephesians 1:4, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, and John 15:16 it says that the Christians are chosen even though they are Gentiles rather than Israelites.

The Michigan finding would reduce the total number of worlds with life by one order of magnitude and therefore inevitable shared intentionality of consciousness, but not the frequency. The ‘likeliest’ candidate for life elsewhere in the Sol system is Titan, we’ll be able to eliminate that within the century. I like Dawkins’ minimal guess for our galaxy; six concurrent civilizations, based implicitly on central place theory I imagine. Signal to noise ratio means we’ll never communicate even if we have neighbours ‘only’ 100ly up or down our arm. Let alone boldly go. There is no Kardashev - Star Trek woo that can ever surmount that, ever has surmounted that. Anywhere. Ever. Which is why Fermi is right for the wrong reason. Or the other way around. The universe is in to its long sunset with star formation declined to 3% of its peak 11ga ago go, so net civilizations will be declining to less than an order of magnitude by that time again, by fag packet: 1 per galaxy. Within a trillion years only red dwarfs will exist and any civilizations on them will be long gone. Unless life can cycle on those worlds. Sentient species evolving every 10my or so. That could go on for a hundred trillion years in this infinitesimal universe. I doubt we’ll ever even detect life spectroscopically as significant oxygen proves nothing, significant water vapour would be a strong indicator. They’re there regardless as we’re average, natural. But if any are older, smarter it makes no difference. We’ll never talk let alone meet before Heaven.

It’s in my Bible. Not only that, The fact that the Jews are the chosen people of God is common, basic Judeo-Christian knowledge. Don’t take this the wrong way, but I really think you could use a background in the basics.

No person was around when God created the earth. Not even Keith Richards. Not even Betty White.

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What else could it possibly refer to? What other series of consecutive, dependent events? You’re trapped by its parallel meanings of stasis, of boredom. You need a full hermeneutical phenomenological encounter with the concept.

Going forward, for the sake of the @moderators, I will only make one reply a day to you, ignoring the barrage of unsolicited private mail (which admittedly I haven’t yet told you explicitly to stop (just done, and muted)), whilst you sleep; there will be no real-time interaction. I apologize to all moderators involved (@LM77, @Laura, @Christy, @Mervin_Bitikofer) for not implementing this months ago.

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I’m going to go ahead an unlist this thread, so people involved can still be notified of it, but we don’t need to air y’all’s conversations to the entirety of the forum. Please feel free to message us privately if you guys need help finding the “ignore” button on each other’s accounts.

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After a bit of house keeping, this thread can now be relisted.

Please don’t make us unlist it again.

Thanks. :slight_smile:

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‘Eternity’ does not have to denote sequential time. Since God is not bound or limited to time, the definition that notes “without end or beginning” fits quite well. God’s relationship to sequential time, his being timeless (or ‘timeful’), is not adequately construed by A- or B-theory. It would not be incorrect to say that he and his relationship to time is inscrutable. But we might have expected that.

Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!
Romans 11:33

 
This is not an idiosyncratic idea, nor is it a new one – one example:

(It has been mentioned here before, as well.)

 
It is not a problem for God’s immutability and instantaneity – his freedom from the constraints of time, either.

It also suggests how he can rule over time and chance in his providence.

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