God’s providential interventions do not need to break any natural laws, but they can be startling in their timing and placing, so you might say miraculous. And the case in question is in the New Testament.
Its not about “nature’s laws” whatever those might be.
Here we’ve a guy who draws to an inside straight flush and
then wins three lotteries in a row. With supernatural help.
Call it what you like.
(You’re not familiar with the expression?)
Okay. So you’re stuck on the nonsense and poverty of the modern fundamentalist approach to understanding most everything - and discovered its insufficiency to provide any lasting basis for anything at all - much less faith. You seem eager to establish your ‘street-cred’ as a nonbeliever. Many here have been there - done that, got the T-shirt. Did you have any point beyond that? Or if you’re ever ready to try something else, life could suddenly get interesting!
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Snakes do dry bite.
I don’t have much of a opinion on this particular story. I accept it though. But I also stated I think it will be fun to look into it more.
I don’t know if there is any validity to this but it’s something to consider also. Or at least worth looking into.
http://www.ionion.com/english/kefalonia/culture/monasteries/enstpaul.htm
There is also this.
This person is arguing that Malta was not the island and thst it did not become the island until in the 1500s and may have had to do with the fact the Knights took over the island.
They claim the island was actually Mljet known as Mileta. They also show both islands on a map and talk about weather patterns and how Mijet is the island that makes most sense geographically and so on.
This island also has snakes, including a viper.
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Wrong island, wrong behavuiour or wrong kind of snake.
I always pictured it in my mind as hanging from its fangs, ‘clinging’ (‘fastened’ in some translations), momentarily as Paul pulled back… But I’m not going to second-guess God’s providence.
The story has him having to shake it off.
A viper bite is so fast you just see a flicker.
Providence would have God direct the snake to behave
so strangely just so people would see it bite?
I am trying to apply science here.
If God directed a snake to appear where they dont live, and for Paul to
not even notice its not a stick, the snake to wait till everybody is watching to " cling", then that is pure religious faith, no science need apply.
No, i saw it. Did you miss most of what I said?
The way it ends up as a story that is its true though every relevant detail of the story is incorrect?
Did Paul tell or endorse the story?
Regarding the topic of Paul’s snake experience, I don’t have any more to say. Others here know more about snakes than I do, and it looks like you’ve got your hands full trying to convince them that it’s all as impossible as you seem to think.
My apologies on my quick assumptions about you - they were indeed exactly that. I’ll refrain and happily accept any correction.
Regarding my tone - There too, I need to set a higher example; so I do hear and note your criticism. I’ll stay accountable too. This forum, like much any other, has plenty of give-and-take which can happen well within our norms of gracious dialogue. Pushback happens. You’ll get used to it.
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I can handle “pushback” just fine, I rather enjoy it.
Id just like to see the guidelines followed if theres to be guidelines
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I don’t think so. After reading several articles, and reading about the geography and the actual name the island and how it seems it was not changed until around the 1600s. Make a lot more sense.
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@SkovandOfMitaze
Not sure what you are saying makes sense.
Or how which island is involved fundamentally changes the story.
You “ don’t think so” regarding “wrong kind of snake or else
wrong behavior”?
Why?
First of all one island has a venomous snake that’s not venomous to harm us. The other island has several species of venomous snakes including a viper. Additional each of these islands are potentially opened up for sea snakes. Sea snakes occasionally wash up on islands. Especially during a storm. There are several reasons why a venomous snake could have ended up on the island. I bet viper just means deadly venomous. They probably don’t have phrases to tell the difference between a pit viper, a sea snake or a species like a coral snake.
You keep mentioning behavior…. What behavior. Some snakes like mud snakes almost never bite. Some try to bite but typically have to small of A mouth to really hurt you like rough green tree snakes. Some bite often and bite hard but are not venomous like coachwhips. Some snakes are venomous but has such low venom they don’t harm us like corn snakes. Some are venomous enough to harm us but typically won’t bite you even if you’re close to them like water moccasins. Some snakes are more venomous and more likely to bite you for being near them like larger desert rattlesnakes.
But almost all of these snakes would bite you if you stepped on them or tried to pick them up, even if it was on accident. So the habit of the snake is not questionable. Paul accidentally grabbed a venomous snake and bit him. The behavior is not an issue. I’ve picked up hundreds , if not close to a thousand snakes so far spread out over around 30 species. I’ve been bitten a bunch. Especially in the last few years since I’ve been going after snakes 3 feet and larger typically and isolating them in holes and using camera lights to see what species are there before reaching in blindly to get it gently without harming it.
So the behavior is perfectly in line .
Each island is open up the random stray sea snake that thst is venomous. One of the islands has some venomous snakes on it including a viper and this island seems to be more in line geographically that they landed on. Based off where they left, where they was headed, and the direction of currents and storms. The links line it out pretty well. Later on In the week, or month I can dedicate a few hours to getting a more detailed concept of the currents and species.
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Thanks for the info. I see no reason not to take the story at face value. A miracle, or sign and wonder, points toward God, and Paul’s experience certainly qualifies. Maybe it was a dry bite or nearly so, but still was no less a sign to his fellow travelers.
You speak of islands. Do you mean to include all of the
Mediterranean islands as possibilities?
I know that such as Montpelier’s snake are rear fanged, inclined to
chew (cling), and pose no risk to people.
If one of those bit Paul, then the point of the story, Divine
protection is moot.
There are no sea snakes in the Mediterranean.
The only dangerous snakes possible are vipers.
So, IF Paul somehow managed to pick up a snake and carry it
around without noticing he had a snake, and IF such snake
didn’t get around to biting until there was an audience then
we still have the snake behaving unlike any other viper.
The behavior described is absolutely not in line with that of any viper.
It is very simple basic knowledge of animal behavior to know that a viper bite is very fast. Note that it puts the animal at much greater risk
to do otherwise (cling) besides being unnecessary.
.
I don’t know why you are looking for ways to make a story of such
extraordinary improbability seem plausible. Prease exprain.