Recent history in the US has certainly highlighted this problem. There are a minority of Christians in the US who I can still have rational conversations with, but there is a vast swath who have left honesty, truth, and reality far behind. They lose credibility when talking about God and the Bible when many of the other things they talk about are demonstrably false.
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What the @@ is this evangelic preaching bs my guy? Are you a prophet or something?
No, I only have hope and also if you look on the internet the number of let’s call the webevangelists is important and also the fact that the world is going from bad to worse, especially due to the low interest rates that favor indebtedness and bring us closer to hyper inflation is evident And since every time there is a disaster people become religious, why couldn’t it happen one more time?
Like the miraculous sorcerers, the conceited ones who believe they are prophets,or the merchants who ask for tithes and sell magical artifacts?
You may find this article worth reading:
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Big lol that never happened. Maybe a few times in history but not every time.Whta you are saying is pure speculation and anecdotal
Exactly that, but more than that!
Many in the West perceive so many who call themselves Christians as not only being totally out of touch with truth/reality but more worryingly they observe Christians wanting not only to follow their morality in their own lives, which would be fine – even appealing – but to impose that morality on everyone else. A morality which in fact often seems to inflict unnecessary suffering. And all this based on an unquestioning devotion to an ancient book of rather obscure and sometimes contentious origin. How are Christians like that any different from militant Islamists?
I can understand that point of view entirely - and I’m a Christian. On the other hand, if Christians really lived and behaved like Christ – not condoning sin but exhibiting and urging a much better way to live - and even stopped fighting among ourselves – that would sure be different!
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As Russell Moore mentions in the article I quoted from above, are Christians within the conservative movement even following their own beliefs? How would Jesus treat people who were seeking refuge after escaping horrible conditions in their own countries? Would he build a wall to keep them out while disparaging their character? What would Jesus think of conservative Christians who spread lies in an attempt to throw out a legal and constitutional vote simply because they don’t like who won? What would Jesus think of conservative Christians who continue to spread lies about current politicians, all in the name of partisan political fidelity?
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May I suggest an author, Matthew bates - the gospel precisely, gospel allegiance, salvation by allegiance alone.
Blessings
And yet here you are imposing your morality on other people. How are you any different from militant Muslims?
Shall I explain it to you? The difference is in the details. Ignoring details is the bread and butter of intolerant ideologues. In fact, it was a typical tactic in Marxist revolution to equate any inequity however trivial with their own work of murder and terrorism. But fabricated justifications do not make them equal. Christian female student Deborah beaten to death by a mob of Muslims in Nigeria for a comment labeled “blasphemy”. Search of a Muslim beaten to death by a mob of Christians turns up nothing. Isolated incident? No. It has happened before. Female preacher Eunice murdered 4 years ago. Oh but they deserved it, right? Because the blasphemy of a comment or preaching should be equated with being beaten to death and murdered.
Should your comment be equated with this behavior of militant Muslims? Absolutely not. Every society MUST impose standards of behavior on its citizens. And the absolute minimum imposition is that of tolerance – where the liberties of one person ends at the same liberties of another person. Should the intolerance of Christians in the U.S. be equated with this behavior of militant Muslims? No. Condemning something as a sin is most certainly not the same as murdering people for speaking their mind.
That said… this most certainly does not mean that I agree with these Christians. I don’t. I think we must distinguish standards of public morality from personal morality. Public morality should be based on what can be objectively established as doing harm to other people. Personal morality without such evidence can only guide your own personal preferences in living your own life, whether it be about what you eat, sex and marriage, or what decide to call “blasphemy.”
Whether it is being vegetarian or no sex before marriage I can admire the personal morality of other people whether I accept the same restrictions or not. But imposed on other people it begins to look more like the fabricated self-righteousness of the Pharisees and lording it over other people, and I see nothing to admire in it anymore, but only reason for condemnation.
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Can anyone point to the life of Christianity in America? Incarnational life? Pure religion and undefiled?
Actually, I would argue that the decline of Christianity is precisely because of the ill-founded, compromised position of Biologos’ evolutionary stance. The lack of respect for the Bible, God’s immense power and sovereignty, and the movement to "be all things to all men"has made the church nothing to all men. There is nothing that makes worship in a liberal church different from social hour at Starbucks with a little feel-good nothingness thrown in for good measure. Starting in Genesis, he church has slid off the hill of God’s word.
Independent of the inaccurate description of Biologos and the Forum participants, the organization, Biologos, hardly has the kind of power over Christianity in the U.S. to bring it down. You’ll need to look elsewhere.
If you decide to stay, though, I recommend you read the articles from Biologos’s main website more carefully. You will find excellent orthodox theology that shows deep respect for and a very high view of Scripture. You will find the same doctrines that are widely held among Christians.
The Forum is messier, because this is a highly heterogeneous bunch with different backgrounds and questions, different ways of thinking, all hashing things out right here in public. It can look quite unseemly at times. Because people are messy and figuring things out is a messy process.
What brings you to the forum, Sam? What are you trying to work out?
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Ironically, if you look at the people who are falling away from the faith in the US, I think you will see most have grown up with the typical young earth literal perspective, and they don’t change into evolutionists, they just drop out of fellowship with other Christians. I think the latest surveys show that 80% of youth in church youth groups fall away from church after graduation. That is regardless of whether they go to college or not. In fact, I suspect the number of kids who stay involved in church is higher among those who go off to those awful secular universities, for a variety of reasons.
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mitchellmckain
Thanks for your response but I don’t understand how am I imposing my morality on other people? You seem very quick to take offence?
In answering the original poster’s question, I was expressing my understanding of how many non-Christians are thinking. Yes, they no doubt have an unbalanced view, but they are most interested in what affects them in their own (perhaps privileged) lives.
You are (hopefully!) right in distinguishing the degree and prevalence of the violence we see inflicted by militant followers of other religions compared with that inflicted by intolerant Christians – however it is true that violence, including murders have been committed by those claiming they are doing the “Christian” God’s will – news coming out of the U.S. is often disturbingly ugly.
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Barna is a Christian polling organization, so a ‘secular bias’ criticism would be illegitimate. Check out reason #3.
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The Barna group report seems to give an overall picture that the teaching (based on an interpretation of the biblical scriptures) and the reality do not match in the congregations where these teens grow up. This seems to include at least the following problems:
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instead of the loving heart of our Father and mutual love and respect among Christians they see rigid following of rules based on local culture / traditions and unfriendly attitude against anyone who do not share the narrow and possibly questionable interpretation of the scriptures taught from the pulpet;
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instead of confident faith in God they see fear against anything that might threaten the current doctrinal structure and leadership. This includes how the word ‘truth’ is handled - instead of true seeking of truth they see attacks against anything that seem to deviate from the ‘accepted truth’ within the congregation;
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instead of the biblical teaching of the powerfull, acting God they often see powerless christianity. Much words and possibly charitable activities but not so much miraculous works of the merciful God in their circles;
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instead of the original movement based on the teachings of Jesus they see actions influenced by the political culture. I does not matter whether the political culture is democrat, republican or something else, the political cultures tend to form bubbles that are something else than what can be read in the NT.
I hope these were exaggerated conclusions but I fear they reflect the reality.
We cannot change the behavior of others but we can change our own behavior. I hope we give a positive example to our surroundings.
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Globally religion shows no sign of declining, demonstrating that it is a sociobiological phenomenon. It is a most convenient placeholder for yearning.
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I share a true story I just heard:
A small congregation with mostly fairly old members declined to the point that it was decided that it has to be closed. It was a sad experience to these people and within our denomination (the only congregation closed during the last year).
Quite soon after the closing a group of young families living in the town and nearby decided they will start a work in that town. They gathered rapidly tens of people eager to start a group (about 60 if I understood it right). The group has not yet selforganized so much that it would form a congregation but it is a good start and we wait to have a new congregation there.
Apparently the group that formed the old congregation was not able to renew their culture and attract new generations. When they could not fulfill their role, God called others to spread the good news in that town. What seems to be a sad development in our eyes is not a barrier to the work of God.
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Thanks for posting the main points. They ring true to this Christian.