Do we know what to do until he comes back? … whether he comes back sooner, later, or not in our lifetime?
The impression I get is that it will be fait accompli.
Richard
If you didn’t know, I am a big fan of Widder’s commentary on Daniel. I think she does an excellent job of explaining the possibility of a double meaning for the prophecy.
“Perhaps in the Spirit’s superintendence of what we know as Daniel 9:25, the Hebrew syntax is intentionally ambiguous — such that both readings are plausible — because both readings are part of the prophecy.”
How true is that for us staring into history 2000 years after Jesus.
- Book of Daniel Summary: A Complete Animated Overview
- The Bible Project covers the book of Daniel in 8 minutes and 53 seconds and doesn’t cost me anything.
- Summary of the Book of Daniel:
1 Like
Both her book and lectures are available on hoopla at no cost through many public library accounts
Came across this interesting title today:
It’s been some time before I’ve read a book on amillennialism. Think I’ll check it out.
RE: Daniel
[NASB] But as for you, Daniel, keep these words secret and seal up the book until the end of time;
Then see:
An interesting take:
“For Daniel, innumerable events needed to transpire before his prophecy would be fully meaningful. For John’s Revelation, no events needed to occur because the time was near. He had seen or heard everything relevant which would take place in the end time.”
2 Likes
What do you think about “the first resurrection”? Is it a physical resurrection? Revelation 20:6.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard this offered as an interpretation before, but it occurred to me that “the first resurrection” may be a reference to the resurrection of Jesus. So it’s not something that happens to believers but something they participate in.
- Dr. Wendy L. Widder, The Book of Daniel, Session 1-- Introduction to Daniel, [49:15].
- Dr. Widder spends {3:35-10:12| about 6 and a half minutes mentioning 10 resources in addition to her own commentary on Daniel for viewers of the above mentioned Session.
- Think about it: the book of Daniel has–according to Dr. Widder alone–11 books shedding light on a 12 chapter book. Apart from the portion of Daniel which simply narrates stories, the apocalyptic/prophetic chapters suck up most of the airtime, making it somewhat less cloudy than the book of Revelation.
- Want to lose me fast? Show me your graphic chart of the weeks between Daniel and the Messiah’s coming, and your theory of whose interpretation of Daniel’s prophecies is correct.
Jesus will return soon!
Amplified Bible
Revelation 1:1-3
1 This is the revelation of Jesus Christ [His unveiling of the divine mysteries], which God [the Father] gave to Him to show to His bond-servants (believers) the things which must soon take place [in their entirety]; and He sent and communicated it by His angel (divine messenger) to His bond-servant John, 2 who testified and gave supporting evidence to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to everything that he saw [in his visions]. 3 Blessed (happy, prosperous, to be admired) is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and who keep the things which are written in it [heeding them and taking them to heart]; for the time [of fulfillment] is near.
Revelation 22
6 Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true.” And the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent His angel [as a representative] to show His bond-servants the things that must soon take place.
7 “And behold, I am coming quickly.”
10 And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time [of their fulfillment] is near. 11 Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy (vile, impure), still be filthy; and the one who is righteous (just, upright), still be righteous; and the one who is holy, still be holy.”
12 “Behold, I (Jesus) am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to the merit of his deeds (earthly works, faithfulness).”
20 He who testifies and affirms these things says, “Yes, I am coming quickly.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
Note what sort of people still exist even after the New Jerusalem is revealed.
Rev 22 (ESV)
12 “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”
14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. 15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
Preterists associate the “cloud coming” of the Son of Man, and the judgment, with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, which took place in AD 70. This is not without reason.
There are preterists within both the postmillennial and amillennial traditions that say that there was a coming and a judgment, and that these took place in AD70, but say that there will be yet another coming and another judgment, and a resurrection of the dead, in the future. These are known as partial preterists. I think this is a misnomer, but hey, I can live with it.
The problem with this “partial preterist” position is that it is nigh impossible to tease apart a future coming, a future resurrection of the dead, and a future judgment, from the passages that they assign to the events of 70 AD.
The wrath to come, the coming of the son of man, the age to come, the resurrection of the dead, and the judgment, and the destruction of Jerusalem and passing away of the old (Mosaic) covenant are all of a bundle.
Some partial preterists even admit this and deal with it by claiming that the events of AD 70 were but more types and shadows of future things!
- John 21:21-22. So Peter, upon seeing him, *said to Jesus, “Lord, and what about this man?” Jesus *said to him, “If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me!”
- The rest is presumption.
What’s your point? What is “the rest” that you think is presumption?
And where does this approach to scripture that you advocate end?
- That it was actually Peter who said this is presumption.
- That it was actually Jesus who responded in this way is presumption.
- That either of these statements was actually made by anyone is presumption.
etc
Jesus didn’t say, he [John] would remain until he came.
But the +obvious inference+ here, is that at least one of the disciples may well still be alive when Jesus returned. And it’s not mere presumption, because Jesus as much as said so!
Do you deny that the early Christians thought Jesus would return within their lifetime?
EDIT:
And if this was intended to be a response to my post just above yours, it fails miserably. You don’t even attempt to address the point I was making.
New Living Translation
What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.
- No.
- John 21:23. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?”
- Everything after the “!”.
“We are so accustomed to magnify the evil in the world that we forget to give God thanks for the evils which His Gospel has extirpated.”
- Alexander Brown
Matthew 16:27-28
Verse 27. “For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father” - This seems to refer to Dan. vii. 13, 14. “Behold, one like the Son of man came-to the ancient of Days-and there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, and nations, and languages should serve him.” This was the glorious Mediatorial kingdom which Jesus Christ was now about to set up, by the destruction of the Jewish nation and polity, and the diffusion of his Gospel through the whole world. If the words be taken in this sense, the angels or messengers may signify the apostles and their successors in the sacred ministry, preaching the Gospel in the power of the Holy Ghost. It is very likely that the words do not apply to the final judgment, to which they are generally referred; but to the wonderful display of God’s grace and power after the day of pentecost.
Verse 28. “There be some-which shall not taste of death” - This verse seems to confirm the above explanation, as our Lord evidently speaks of the establishment of the Christian Church after the day of pentecost, and its final triumph after the destruction of the Jewish polity; as if he had said, “Some of you, my disciples, shall continue to live until these things take place.” The destruction of Jerusalem, and the Jewish economy, which our Lord here predicts, took place about forty-three years after this: and some of the persons now with him doubtless survived that period, and witnessed the extension of the Messiah’s kingdom; and our Lord told them these things before, that when they came to pass they might be confirmed in the faith, and expect an exact fulfillment of all the other promises and prophecies which concerned the extension and support of the kingdom of Christ.
To his kingdom, or in his kingdom. Instead of basileia, kingdom, four MSS., later Syriac, Coptic, Ethiopic, Saxon, and one copy of the Itala, with several of the primitive fathers, read doxh, glory: and to this is added, tou patrov autou, of his Father, by three MSS. and the versions mentioned before. This makes the passage a little more conformable to the passage already quoted from Daniel; and it must appear, very clearly, that the whole passage speaks not of a future judgment, but of the destruction of the Jewish polity, and the glorious spread of Christianity in the earth, by the preaching of Christ crucified by the apostles and their immediate successors in the Christian Church.
Matthew 16:64
Verse 64. “Thou hast said” - That is, I am the Christ, the promised Messiah, (see on ver. 25;) and you and this whole nation shall shortly have the fullest proof of it: for hereafter, in a few years, ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, fully invested with absolute dominion, and coming in the clouds of heaven, to execute judgment upon this wicked race. See chap. xxiv. 30. Our Lord appears to refer to Dan. vii. 13: One like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, &c. This may also refer to the final judgment.
Matthew 24:30
Verse 30. “Then shall appear the sign of the Son of man” - The plain meaning of this is, that the destruction of Jerusalem will be such a remarkable instance of Divine vengeance, such a signal manifestation of Christ’s power and glory, that all the Jewish tribes shall mourn, and many will, in consequence of this manifestation of God, be led to acknowledge Christ and his religion. By thv ghv, of the land, in the text, is evidently meant here, as in several other places, the land of Judea and its tribes, either its then inhabitants, or the Jewish people wherever found.
Revelation 11:8 (New International Version)
Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified.
Thoughts on which city this is? Seems to me it’s speaking of Jerusalem.
James 5:8-9
“Stabilize your hearts, because the coming of the Lord has drawn near and is imminent…The judge has taken His stand before the doors.”
- Kenneth S. Wuest. The New Testament: An Expanded Translation
“He is already on his way to destroy this wicked people, to raze their city and temple, and to destroy their polity for ever; and this judgment will soon take place.”