When will Jesus Return?

Faith & Science Conversation
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For I reckon that the sufferings of the present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory about to be revealed in us (Romans 8:18)

This is all the more urgent, for you know how late it is; time is running out. Wake up, for our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. The night is almost gone; the day of salvation will soon be here. (Romans 13:11-12)

The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. May the grace of our Lord Jesus be with you. (Romans 16:20)

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1 Corinthians 7:29-31
This is what I mean, brothers: the appointed time has grown very short…the present form of this world is passing away.

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1 John 2:18
English Standard Version
Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour.

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My probability argument is as follows. If the chance of His return in any period of (say) 100 years is p, then the chance of his NOT returning in that period is (1-p). We know that He has not returned during 20 such periods, the chance of which is (1-p) to the power 20. So the chance, starting from the first century, that His return will be in the next 100 years from now is p times (1-p) to the power 20, and for this to equal 1 gives an infinitesimal value of p. (Hope I’ve got the maths right.)
But theologically, in my view His “return” is not a physical literal one, but probably relates to each of us individually, after death.

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I sometimes wonder if those awaiting his return because of all the hyperbolic and symbolic descriptions of it are not present in their opinion means that they also thought the promised land was literally flowing with milk and honey.

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I just completed reading a book on Amillennialism in which I found the following:

John separates this vision from the previous vision in Revelation 19 with the words “Then I saw.” This vision contains symbols. We understand that Satan is a spiritual being not just a physical dragon, and that though he is literally bound, it is not a physical chain and a physical pit that contain him. These are visionary symbols the Spirit uses to relate spiritual realities. Within this context it is also reasonable to assume that the thousand years is also symbolic.

But then goes on to assert that the New Heaven and New Earth are to be understood as a literal new planet and surrounding space!

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I interpret many texts in scriptures as symbolic. Revelation is full of visions that probably are mostly symbolic. Yet, I wait for the return of Jesus. I have not seen or heard anything that convinces me that Jesus has returned.

The idea of Jesus having returned seems to be based on interpretations about the texts promising a rapid return. Although nothing indicates that Jesus has already returned, it is interpreted that the return must have happened because of the promises of a rapid return. This is just my impression about the claims, please correct me if I got it wrong.

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That is certainly a great part of it, but certainly not the whole of it. So in that respect you are not wrong.

No one doubts that Jerusalem actually was conquered by the Romans in AD 70. So at least some of what Jesus said would take place within the lifetime of “this generation” did in fact take place within the time frame he specified.

There is also good reason to believe that the Apocalypse of John describes this event, even apart from the time statements in that text.

If one takes Jesus and the New Testament authors seriously, maybe we can set forth the choices we are faced with.

  1. They were all wrong. Jesus was a false prophet.
  2. Jesus and the NT authors were not talking about the destruction of Jerusalem at all.
  3. Some of the things were fulfilled, but not all were fulfilled.
  4. All things were fulfilled.

Can anyone think of other options that we might need to consider?

I think that the theory that the early Christians were mistaken in associating his coming with the destruction of Jerusalem would fall under #3.

If one accepts that some of the prophecies were fulfilled, but not all, this is no doubt due in large part to the apocalyptic language in the texts. Sun being darkened, moon turning to blood, stars falling from the sky, etc.

But here is where we apply the maxim to let scripture interpret scripture. This language is not found only in the New Testament. Jesus is employing the same imagery that was used by the OT prophets. So in exploring how this language is used elsewhere in the bible we can come to understand that it is not meant to be taken literally. Like much of the text of Revelation the language is imagery. It is symbolic.

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Thanks for your clarification. I was not sure if my understanding was correct, that was why I asked.

I would say that some of the things have been fulfilled but not all (your alternative 3).

I agree that much of the language is symbolic but far from everything in the scriptures. Even symbolic language describes something real, although not in a direct manner. It is a matter of interpretation how much of the language we consider symbolic and what do the symbolic parts represent. When everything has happened and we can hear what God tells, then we will learn which interpretations got it right. Until that time, interpretation is a matter of studying, thinking and praying.

I could list things that should happen when Jesus returns, such as many dead rising to meet the Lord. What I consider the most important open question is how do we know that Jesus has returned? What are the signs of it, what are the evidence? Jerusalem was destroyed but I do not see any signs or evidence that Jesus has returned.

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A lengthy discussion here!
The question “When will Jesus Return?” has fueled the publication of many books…and kept people’s attention during many a sermon.

Jesus said “No man knows the day or the hour…” so i don’t think trying to say expressly “when” is useful. But when He comes, we will know it. Some NT prophecies that had first-century fulfillment could as easily have prefigured the fulfillment during this Later Event.

The reason we do not know “WHEN” is to motivate us to live each day as though He were returning the next. Some day He will.

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Our personal end of the current life happens when we die, if Jesus does not return before it. We do not have to live waiting the visual return of Jesus. It is enough that we live ready to meet our personal end. If we are every day ready to meet the Lord after we suddenly die, we will be ready when the return of Jesus happens.

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It’s based off of a lot of stuff. If you are interested, you can look up dozens of books and podcasts about preterism. I was not convinced of it either until I read it and studied it. I’ve also read books , lots of them, by others who hold to the futurist views. I found them unconvincing.

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Yes. I started out totally from a futurist perspective, only interested in when the rapture would take place, pre or post tribulation. Because when I read the NT it indicated to me that Christians would go through the tribulation, which ran contrary to what was being preached and presented in the books like those of Hal Lindsey. Well, one thing led to another … :slight_smile:

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The problem I have with this view, that we cannot know when, is that it runs counter to all the explicit statements of Jesus and the NT authors, almost all of whom addressed the question of when.

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Thanks Mung!!

A few years back, I was in a group that chose to work through a popular study referencing the details (or the study-writer’s rendering of details) leading up to the Second Coming. Two women in the group were caught up in a particular radio preacher’s earnest beliefs. He had the date and time of the Second Coming down to the month, day, and year. And spoke frequently and everywhere about it. These women brought it up every month when we met. And when I said “Jesus said, ‘No man knows the day or the hour…’…”.after about my millionth recitation of this statement— one woman looked at me and said, “We may not be able to know the day or the hour. But we can know the year!”

As for Matthew 10:23, there are several possible meanings. The idea that the disciples of Jesus were barely going to finish covering “the cities of Israel” before the Son of Man returned, hardly explains the mission to the Gentiles which Jesus later put forth in those famous verses near the end of Matthew 28…just for example. That is: Israel (did that only mean the Galilee? or also Judea in this context?) was only part of what Jesus’ disciples were/are to do. So where does all that fit in with some idea of “knowing when” or the NT writers “knowing” such a thing in this passage? Since the Gospel of Matthew likely was written around the time of the destruction of the Temple (a bit before/a bit after–depending on your source), the destruction of the Temple itself may have been seen to be the judgment meant in Jesus’comments. But that was not stating the Second Coming or the timing of it. It was part of a shift towards taking place — with the Gospel now going to the Gentile peoples. And another possibility is that the language of this verse had reference to some grander idea —“some striking experience of the power of the new age,” as one commentator has it —and not just the coming of that Age or specification of the return of Christ in and of itself. The “striking experience” referenced could have been the dramatic coming of the Spirit at Pentecost (or appearances of Jesus post-Resurrection [?] --which are not the actual return of Jesus. Some commentators see this remark as referencing the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70…others view it in light of the Danielic language being used and also of the circumstances being experienced by a group of individuals being sent out on a mission to the towns of Galilee and not related to conversations about a parousia.

You can find out various perspectives in various commentaries like WBC and NICNT…plus others. The thrust of the biblical message – when it does get into this subject, at any rate — is pretty non-revealing about the dates and times. There are even passages that seem to caution people about being misled by some such dating attempt. All for now…but thanks for the discussion!

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Hold on, … so where are the two women now? Do you know where, or have you seen them recently? Or have they “disappeared” mysteriously? Ya can’t leave your audience wondering after a teaser like that.

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Yes I can!!

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OK…can’t leave ya hanging!

The two women disappeared…
…shortly after Harold Camping’s death!!

Could it be----?

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Hi Robin,

Well, what Jesus did not say is that they would all die before they finished going through the cities of Israel. The obvious inference is that the Son of Man would come before they were all dead. And this is explicitly stated elsewhere in the NT.

And in Acts 1:8

Remarkably, I just recently started reading a book on the theology of Acts and Paul. He writes:

…the universal apostolic task that Acts documents is also a finished task. (p. 54)

Acts intends to show that in its universal realization, the apostolic task in view in 1:8 has been completed. (p. 54)

…in the light of Acts 1:8, Acts documents a completed universal, apostolic task. (p. 54)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1433563347

regards

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  • I speculated as much but he died in December 2013, almost 10 years ago, which was indeed a few years back.