What Is The Gospel and what does it do?

Forgive me, I misread your statement. But the following is good anyway.

These are not commands I stumble over, they are the ones I long to obey. You have not read my post carefully enough to either understand or remember the words or concepts that the Lord and the apostles preached. Don’t lust after people, don’t covet or crave the things of this life, don’t follow any of the ways of this present world which are, lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh and the pride of life. Love God with all your heart, mind and strength and love your neighbor as yourself. Go into all the world and preach the gospel. If you try to save your life in this world you will lose it, but if you lose if for my sake you will have everlasting life. Deny yourself and take up your cross and follow Jesus. Don’t love money and possessions and don’t put your trust in them. Use your money to supply your needs and help others with it. Be poor in spirit, that is, don’t think highly of your self, let your boasting be in what Christ has done. Count the cost of following Jesus, your enemies will be those of your own household. If you love father, mother, sister, brother, wife, children or even your own life more than Jesus you are not worthy of Him. Pay taxes to whom taxes are due, and honor those in authority as long as they do not require you to sin. If your right eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out, it is better than one member of your body is lost than your whole body be cast into the fire. And the rest of Jesus and the apostles words.

Edited: An yes I have stumbled or more accurately I have walked away from Him in the past, which I have stated before but you may have missed that, I miss a lot of what people post.

Okay - it looks like this topic has reached a point where none of us are putting our best offerings forward any more. Once we feel compelled to establish our “street cred” among this group or that or put down others for their allegedly inferior understanding of scripture - it’s no longer “Gospel News” being discussed. Of course Paul did the same when he started feeling defensive to the Corinthian church, but Paul also said he was a fool for being provoked into doing it, and told us straight out that such boasting was not from the Lord. So with a nod to any good material that people may have contributed above, let’s give this thread a rest for now. Perhaps it can be re-opened at some later point, but for now - get off your computer and wish a family member a joyous new year.

Happy new Year everyone!

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Opened back up by popular request.

… but behave yourselves, people. Let’s see if we can restrain the ‘holier-than-thou’ contests and the one-liner exchanges that are bereft of any pertinent content.

God saves you from the evil powers of this world by KILLING YOU. He executed you in Christ which caused you to die to the evil powers. Then He resurrected you, a free man, raised you up with the righteousness of God Himself in you, recreated in righteousness, the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus is the very nature of your newly created spirit, a child of God. THAT IS SALVATION. THAT IS GRACE, UNMERRITED FAVOR, A GIFT OF GOD TO US. He killed me then He resurrected me. I have the Father and the Son living in me. They are saving me daily, moment by moment.

Not by works of righteousness that I have done but by His unmerited favor He keeps me safe. He did this through the death and resurrection of the Second Adam, Jesus.

Sooooo…… how does that play out in this body and world that those who love Jesus still live in? What manner of lives should we be living?

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Matt 10:34-39 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn "‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law— 36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’ 37 "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38 and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

The above words of Jesus, as well as others that were before these are part of the Gospel of the Kingdom. Jesus is laying out some of the costs of following Him. Love and obedience to Jesus will bring division, this happens all the time. A person who turns and follows Jesus will become a stench in the nostrils of the world. True righteousness is hated by those who do not love God. If they called Jesus the devil they will do the same to his disciples.

We declare that there is only one person who can save people from sin, Satan and God’s just wrath on all who continue to rebel against Him. Jesus, the Sovereign ruler over all, He as all authority in Heaven and earth and because He died in our place and rose from the dead he owns us. By declaring His absolute Lordship over all things, this will bring division. The disciples of Jesus will be hated by the world and even their own family members. This is happening all over the world at this very moment.
It is not our objective to save our lives here and to make this world our own, for we have been crucified to this world and this world to us. If we hold on to this life and don’t take up our cross we are not worthy of Jesus. We are looking for a city and a Kingdom that God has prepared for us.

So, count the cost of following Jesus. Hated by the world and our death to it, but this is good news, for we will be walking in the footsteps of Jesus and will have eternal life.

Look up, for our final redemption is close, the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

No, transubstantiation did not come from a biblically-illiterate population. It is one of several valid positions on the Eucharist, even though it is not my own position.

I’m corrected :slight_smile: But it is a very literal view. From my Christian college memories, I was thinking of the days when mass was offered to the uneducated.

I find transubstantiation difficult to comprehend.

(especially in the Roman Catholic Church) the conversion of the substance of the Eucharistic elements into the body and blood of Christ at consecration, only the appearances of bread and wine still remaining. Google

“Appearance” apparently includes everything that is measurable. This sounds to me a lot like a blind willfulness and some kind of allergy to words such as “metaphor.” Though… to tell the truth, I cannot exclude the possible applicability of words like “spirit” or “spiritual” for this, because while I tend to think of spirit as having to do with living organisms, it is fundamentally subjective. It is possibly enough that people perceive a spiritual aspect to a non-living thing for that spiritual aspect to exist. I know that there are quite a few religion such as Shinto and Native American which see a spiritual essence in non-living things. But the notion of a physical change in a substance without changes in the measurable properties of it is not even rationally coherent to a physicist – those measures of the substance are the essence of its physicality.

Matt 16:24-26
"If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it.

This is interesting what Jesus says about taking up our cross and following Him and He associates it with losing our lives. The associating of our death with our cross lines up with His death with His cross, which His cross has become our cross. On His cross we die and through that death we lose our old life and we gain everlasting life.

In the proclamation of the Good News, Jesus was calling us to, come and die with Him.

His cross is death to the old man, His resurrection is a new man with everlasting life.

So the Good News we have for the people of the world is, “Die in Christ and gain everlasting life. Save your life now and you will lose it forever.”

Matt 5:20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

The Pharisees had an apparent righteousness, they would have followed many of the ceremonial commands and ordinances of God and even some of the moral ones such as not committing adultery, murder and stealing and others. But their heart or affections were far from God. Jesus told them at one point that they nullify the commands of God by their traditions, customs. Jesus said that everything they do is done for men to see. Jesus told them, “you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness”.

So let’s go back to carnal entertainment for a moment as an example of one way a present day Pharisee could look like. We may not commit adultery, fornication, dishonor our parents, collect a bunch of possessions to consume by our own lusts (though some who confess Christ still may), but do we take pleasure in those that do. By placing our minds under the control of godless people who produce carnal entertainment, (shows, movies, books, songs) we are allowing all manner of greed, self-indulgence, hatred, bitterness, rebellion, fornication and adultery, parental disobedience, lust for worldly pleasure etc to enter our souls.

Ps 101 I will sing of your love and justice; to you, O Lord, I will sing praise. 2 I will be careful to lead a blameless life — when will you come to me? (Repentance, turning from evil prepares the way of the Lord to come to you.)

I will walk in my house with blameless heart. 3 I will set before my eyes no vile thing. (By participating in carnal entertainment I place vile things before my eyes and into my ears.)

The deeds of faithless men I hate; they will not cling to me. 4 Men of perverse heart shall be far from me; I will have nothing to do with evil. (Do we allow men of perverse heart near us and actually into our thoughts?)

5 Whoever slanders his neighbor in secret, him will I put to silence; whoever has haughty eyes and a proud heart, him will I not endure. (Carnal entertainment is full of this.)

6 My eyes will be on the faithful in the land, that they may dwell with me; he whose walk is blameless will minister to me. (Let the faithful saints of God be your enjoyment and let the righteous minister or influence you.)

7 No one who practices deceit will dwell in my house; no one who speaks falsely will stand in my presence. (Do not allow the unrighteous to dwell in your heart and mind.)

8 Every morning I will put to silence all the wicked in the land; I will cut off every evildoer from the city of the Lord. (Take up your cross daily, execute, put to silence all the wicked deeds of the flesh, cut off the evildoer from you who say you are the dwelling place of the Spirit of God.)

Now it can be Pharisaical to have the attitude, “You watch TV? I don’t because it is evil. I’m not like those who do watch it.” At the same time it can be righteousness and love for their neighbor that causes someone to say, “Carnal TV shows are filled with wickedness, therefore I don’t watch it because it offends the Spirit of God in me and can lull me to sleep spiritually. You should not watch it too for the same reasons.”

People may say, “We are under grace and not some law you make up.” But what does the grace of God teach us? Titus 2:11 “For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. 12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13 while we wait for the blessed hope — the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ” So let us live according to the nature of righteousness which God birthed us with when we were Born Anew and became a New Creation in Christ. In Christ the old man is dead and a new man has been created with the righteousness of God, this was accomplished through the cross of Christ.
Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God.

This can be applied also to whom we “hangout” with, and why we hang out with them.

May all who call on the name of Jesus, depart from evil.

I don’t think this is true, Cody. Pharisees (and our use of that label now to refer to contemporary equivalents) are generally those who wish to be seen as righteous and holy. And most secular entertainment venues (including tv and theatres), while maybe not so universally condemned anymore, are nonetheless also not admired as righteous choices. Actually, the Pharisees are the ones who pride themselves as being morally upstanding - above reproach.

You won’t find them in casinos or indulging in questionable entertainment (or certainly not boasting of it when they have). You’ll find them in pulpits, on elders boards, in pews, and nearly always honing their biblical knowledge for the purpose of pointing out the sins of culture.

I would agree with you in general that they would stay away from outward sinfull actions and declare themself right because of that. But one of the points of what I said (though I may not have made it clear enough) is that a confessing Christian can abstain from these outward things but through carnal input they are not righteous in their inward affections and that was one of the aspects of a Pharisees. They allowed wickedness to remain inside them.
So even if someone cant see the association of those who enjoy carnal entertainment, the Psalm that was quoted should be enough to promote a very serious and deep reflection of what I have presented.
Laying aside carnal entertainment for the love of God and others will not harm anyone and will most definitely be a blessing to your mind and spiritual growth.

Another thing about hypocrisy, and some have brought this up here, is that there are many who confess Christ but do go to casinos, filthy movies, lie, commit fornication etc and declare that they are saved and going to heaven. That is one of our present day Pharisees or hypocrites.

Matthew 23 Then said Jesus to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat; 3 so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice. 4 They bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with their finger. 5 They do all their deeds to be seen by men; for they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, 6 and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues, 7 and salutations in the market places, and being called rabbi by men. 8 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren. 9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. 10 Neither be called masters, for you have one master, the Christ. 11 He who is greatest among you shall be your servant; 12 whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither enter yourselves, nor allow those who would enter to go in. 15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you traverse sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.

16 “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘If any one swears by the temple, it is nothing; but if any one swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’ 17 You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred? 18 And you say, ‘If any one swears by the altar, it is nothing; but if any one swears by the gift that is on the altar, he is bound by his oath.’ 19 You blind men! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 So he who swears by the altar, swears by it and by everything on it; 21 and he who swears by the temple, swears by it and by him who dwells in it; 22 and he who swears by heaven, swears by the throne of God and by him who sits upon it.

23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law, justice and mercy and faith; these you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. 24 You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel! 25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you cleanse the outside of the cup and of the plate, but inside they are full of extortion and rapacity. 26 You blind Pharisee! first cleanse the inside of the cup and of the plate, that the outside also may be clean. 27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28 So you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but within you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, 30 saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 Thus you witness against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. 33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? 34 Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, 35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of innocent Abel to the blood of Zechari′ah the son of Barachi′ah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly, I say to you, all this will come upon this generation.

37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not! 38 Behold, your house is forsaken and desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’”

I think this is far more than religion. I think this is a pervasive bad habit. We set out to do something good and we poison it with the judgement. We start by giving and then become resentful, making too much of ourselves, and end up filling what we give with anger and bile. We just suck at heaven – starting with the motivation of making the world a better place and end up just making things worse than ever. The impact on religion is to change it from a good thing into something evil – twisting the law and scriptures into tools of manipulation.

The words of Jesus here also points to the crucifixion of Jesus as the culmination of a history of evil. The hope is that in realizing who Jesus is, we would be horrified enough seeing Him on the cross to stop and seek for a way to change. I have said we should feel shame looking at the cross, but that is only because of the admiration we feel looking at the man who hangs there.

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Which should bring us to Jesus, for confession and repentance and to plead for help, because the stoney hearts of unbelief cannot change themselves. Of course, a repentant heart has already been softened by Jesus’ Holy Spirit.

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Indeed! Because the glorious news is that it does not end at the cross. Jesus lives. He shows us the truth of eternal life which He promised.

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Reading this thread makes me SO thankful that we have separation of Church and State. There is no index of banned books here. This is not Iran. The Handmaid’s Tale is instructional for us and shows what can happen when religious fanatics gain power. Margaret Atwood said that all the horrible things done to women in her novel have really happened in history.

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These would not even be able to rank very impressively even as Pharisees. Yes, there is hypocrisy, and wickedness, to be sure. And nobody here is suggesting that continuing to indulge in evil entertainment is a spiritually sound choice.

But read what Paul says of himself (Pharisee of Pharisees … studies under Gamaliel, unmatched in zeal, a persecutor - for God! - of the church). This is not a guy who, as a Pharisee would have been enjoying the evil entertainments of his day - probably not even in private where he couldn’t be seen. He was totally sold on his own righteousness in these matters. I think you’re missing what Phariseeism really is … this is what plagues us (as in you and me) whenever we convince ourselves that we’ve managed to be righteous (even if just in some particular area, such as scriptural knowledge) in comparison to others. The fellow standing at the front of the temple isn’t likely heading off to the local brothel just after he’s finished thanking God that he isn’t at all like that pathetic schmuck at the back (who probably is a familiar face at the local brothel). And we know what Jesus says about the relative spiritual conditions of [God’s reaction to] each of these men. And while we’re in our self-righteous mindsets, that scandalizes us. We would very much like to tweak the parable of the late workers in the vineyard being paid the same as the actual hard workers. We can’t stand that it just isn’t fair, and we grumble (unless it happens to be unfair in our favor - that tends to mitigate our grumbling just a bit). That’s a sure sign of Pharisaism right there.

Yes - there is a real (non-Pharisaical) righteousness that is given to us in Christ - but it is His righteousness and not our own. The crucifixion of our flesh does not seem to me to be a one-time thing, but an on-going necessity (at least for me). We are called to let our fleshly desires die, and to align ourselves with God’s Spirit instead. You are right that God calls us to continually rise above our fleshly selves. As to a (gnostic) rejection of the entire material world as allegedly evil, in favor of an allegedly good Spiritual world, that isn’t right either, and does not survive scriptural attention.

[I’ve recently heard it taught that where the New Testament refers to “flesh”, the closest and contemporary meaning we could associate with that is ‘ego’. It is the hardest (and often last) thing that any of us still cling to even if we’ve become saints in every other area … submitting our bodies to the flames, as it were … but there still in the middle of any/all ‘great works’ we have or imagine we have on our ledger, right in the middle of it all sits that nearly indestructible ego.]

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Im not sure if I understand where you are coming from. Do you think Jesus approves of us being entertained by what comes out of those who are controlled by the carnal mind which is an enemy of God? Does Jesus enjoy setting with those who are saints of God and is entertained by watching people fornicating, useing His name in a profane way, children mocking and showing disrespect towards their parents, being high minded, boastful, arrogant, covetous, wallowing in the wicked pleasures of this life, approval of drunkeness and laughing at the results of it? I am not sure where you are coming from. I cant remember from what you may have said in the past, so ill ask. Are you a Christian?