When I think of Paul, this is what I remember most… because this is the passage that finally got through to me. For when Paul speaks here, I saw myself.
Romans 7:13 Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, working death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure. 14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree that the law is good. 17 So then it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I cannot do it. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me.
21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inmost self, 23 but I see in my members another law at war with the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin which dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I of myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
We are incapable of even living up to own standards (unless we keep moving the line).
I hear what your saying, but your liberty comes in the next chapter. [[Rom 8:1-14/KJV]]v 1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. v 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. v 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: v 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. v 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. v 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. v 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. v 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. v 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. v 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. v 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. v 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. v 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. v 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
God executed us and raised us up from death in the here and now. We who belive were born of God with His righteousness in our new spirits. We died to sin through Christ’s death and were raised up new creations, born of God by His Spirit. He transfered us from the kingdom of darkness into the Kingdom of His Son. We are told we have died to sin, it is not our Lord. He set us free. It is essential to understand what happened through the cross to those who have placed thete faith in Christ.
Those who walk in the Spirit will NOT FULFILL THE LUSTS OF THE FLESH.
Evangelicals take many literal views. I can’t think of any time when the RCC denied communion to the uneducated. It was generally denied to the ex-communicated, heretics, and non-Catholics. What would be the point of denying it to the uneducated? Through much of history most were uneducated.
That is an interesting translation, Randy (which one is it?). Because that’s not at all what I’ve read that verse to mean. In the NRSV it says: “…who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God as something to be exploited.” (or in another version: “…as something to be grasped.”)
The version in your quote almost makes it sound like the opposite claim is being made … that equality with God is something graspable (unless you accidentally got an extra negative in there…?)
KJV–I took the one that came first, but it also comes easiest to my mind as I memorized in it as a child! NRSV is better.
4 Let each of you look not to your own interests, but to the interests of others. 5 Let the same mind be in you that was[a] in Christ Jesus,
6 who, though he was in the form of God,
did not regard equality with God
as something to be exploited,
7 but emptied himself,
taking the form of a slave,
being born in human likeness.
And being found in human form,
8 he humbled himself
and became obedient to the point of death—
even death on a cross.
Interesting point! I am not sure I ever noticed it. Thanks.
Assume legitimate Christian faith on the part of other people, unless they identify otherwise. The purpose of discussions here is not to judge the legitimacy or efficacy of anyone’s faith or lack of faith.
I don’t think Cody has stepped over the line with you yet. But he should be careful about this.
Science fiction story of regime with the following laws
Free speech and press illegal
Homosexuality called “gender treachery” and made illegal
Women and children are property of men.
Contraception illegal.
Women cannot own property, read, write, or vote.
No freedom of religion.
Unrealistic? Hardly! All of these were the case in most places in times past, and most are still the case in some places in the world.
Since it has been made plan that the whole world is under the power of the wicked one and that all of mankind have been slaves to sin, how do we get freed from sin and the devil.?
Is the fact that wicked people killed Jesus, supposed to only be an example to show us what we would do if God came to earth and that we should feel really really really bad and change. Do you think God is saying, “Look what you did to my Son. Now you should feel sad and change. You need to do better. Work harder to stop sinning. Come on, you can do it, work harder, Harder, HARDER! Your not working hard enough yet. You have to work very very hard to free yourself from your masters of sin and the evil one. If you work hard enough and free yourself I will let you into Heaven, because you earned it.”
OR!
Did we need a savior to come and actually deliver us from our slavery and bondage to sin and the devil? If we did need God to deliver us from the masters that had us bound, how do you think God did that. And did He really, truly, set us free from sin and the devil? And what should that freedom look like in this life for those who have been set free?
I just explained that I am a believer. You BioLogos bullies are not going to get away with questioning my faith. I’ve been subjected to too much of that here. No wonder female participants are so rare here.
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Wait till we see what the most holy and righteous fanatic does on the Day of Judgement. There will be such a scrutiny of all our thoughts, actions and words. No one will escape the scrutinnizing judgement of Jesus. Every idle word, every deed will be evaluated. It wont be any of us judging another, it will be an absolute holy and righteous Jesus. He will devide the sheep and the goats. It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the Living God. Those of us who have placed our trust in Jesus will be compared to the words He has spoken, we will be judged by them. Blesses are the pure in heart, blessed are the meek, blessed are they who hunger and thirst after righteosness etc. These and more will be the standard by which we are judged. Hebrews says*[[Heb 10:26-27/KJV]]* v 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, v 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
So let us encourage each other daily because of the deceitfulness of sin. Let us abstain from all sin and live upright and Godly lives as we look for the return of our Lord and the one who saved us from the power of sin through His cross.
