What is Genesis 1 about?

Genesis has nothing to do with evoluton!

Matthew Cserhati

When asked, many people in different churches claim that they can square the creation account in Genesis with evolution. Many do not want to seem unscientific and thus come up with a compromise position. They think that it is a wise solution if they accept both evolution and creation and can remain religious and also be socially acceptable. I was such a person but I had to discover that this was only a hal-answer, a half-solution, and a half-truth.

You cannot just say that creation only tells us who God is, and only that He is the creator. Creation is described in Genesis 1 in 31 verses, and it does say certain things about the phsyical universe and how it came to be. Moses is the best one to explain to us how he wrote Genesis 1, and not Darwin.

If anyone calls themselves a Christian, then he must place himself under the Bible’s authority. He must bow his knee before the Bible, because it is God’s Word. If one does not accept God’s Word, then that person does not belong to God. Christianity is based on the Bible and cannot be independent from it. Therefore in the following pages we shall examine Genesis 1, and what it says about creation!

  1. „In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” This verse is so fmous, because it describes so many things. In the beginning God created everything. This is a completed work, not a continuous, endless evolutionary process of development. God created everything, and then ceased from all His works of creation. This single verse refutes evolutionary philosophy. “The heavens and the earth” is what is known as a merism in Hebrew: it contains everything in it: all things visible and invisible. There is nothing which was not created by God. Therefore we have to exclude all interpretations which say that God only created after some short time after the beginning point in another greater created reality. This view leads to atheism and is thus untenable. The beginning is a time point, not a time interval.

The first three words in this verse are “Bereshit barah Elohim” in Hebrew. Not ehtat in Hebrew, the word “El” denotes God, or the deity. But here we see Elohim, where the -im ending denotes the male plural. What does this mean? God is one, but in plurality: gods. One God, but more than one person, since the word “barah” means “He created”, in the singular. This is a reference to the Trinity: one God in three persons. Right in the very first verse of the Bible!

2 „The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.” This verse reinforcesthe first verse: the Earth was formless and void. It did not become that way. Some try vainly to slip in a very lengthy period of time between verses one and two. This is simply not in the text of the Bible. This formless void was not chaotic. This is neither the result of evolutionary development, nor is it the destruction of an already existing archaic world. It is not the same as the chaos of Greek mythology. It was a simple state of existance where God’s building material were present: simple matter. It is like when an engineer starts to construct a buildimg, so also did God collect all of His building material. Then he constructs the building that He had planned beforehand.

3–4. “Then God said: Let there be light; and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness.” This describes God’s creative work of the first day. It stems from God’s character that He separates good from evil, and light from darkness. Light contains information. We can see because of light. Light is good, and 1 John 1:5 also says that God is light, and there is no darkness in Him. This means that God is truth. Jesus says the same thing in John 14:6, that He is the Way, the truth and the Life.

  1. “God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.” This is the way the Bible defines a day. It does not say in the Hebrew that it is the “first day”. In Hebrew that would be “yim rishon”. But in the Hebrew instead we have “yom echad”: one day . This is one day: a period of darkness which is followed by a period of light. Evening, and then morning. This does not correspond to a million years. That would be completely meaningless. There are other Hebrew words to denote long periods of time, but these do not appear here. The reason these time periods come after one another is because the Earth is rotating in front of a light source. The Bible describes events from our human point of view so that we may understad it. God comes down to our level in this way. It is also worth mentioning that on the first day there is no sun, no moon, planets or stars… This means that the focus of God’s attention is the Earth, and mankind. You and me. It may not be that the Earth is not in the exact center of the pjhysical universe. but e cn be sure that God pays special attention to man. Man was created to have a personal relationship with the Creator God. God is deeply concerned about what goes in in our lives, in human affairs. Therefore god is not indifferent as to how we live. We cannot live our lives as we please.

6–8. “Then God said: Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament. And it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.” In these two verses we see how God proceeds with His work of creation. God does not use millions of years of haphazard events to develop the universe and the Earth. On the first day God separated light from darkness. On the second day God again separates two things from one another: the upper and the lower waters, so that the sky and the firmament (that is, the atmopshere) became visible. By doing so God created environments for different animals, which He is to create on later days: the birds and the fish. God takes great care not only for mankind but also for the animals as well.

The firmament is not a rock-solid firmament. The word for firmament in Hebrew is “raqia”. This word can be interpreted in many different ways, but it is not always defined as a hard substance. Genesis 1:20 states that the birds flew across the face of the firmament. It would be meaningless if the birds would be moving across the surface of a hard substance. This is not how birds fly. Again, the Bible describes events by going down to our level. Again, the Bible describes events as how we would percieve them. This is not a problem, since scientists themselves also talk about sunrise and sunset.

9–10. “Then God said: Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear. And it was so. And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good.” God proceeds with His work of creation on the thord day. And again, He separates two things from one another, and by doing so again creates another environment, for animals, plants and also for man.

In my previous presentation I spoke about the science of baraminology (in other words, biblical taxonomy, or the biblical categorization of organisms). This Bible-based science deals with how to place orgaisms into different groups. It is completely scientific, since we do not have to accept the presupposition that all organisms are related to one another. God creates different environments on the second and third day, and then fills these environments with different kinds of animals on the fifth and sixth days. Since God created the animals on different days, it means there are no evolutionary relationships between them. They are separate acts of God’s creation. This way dinosaurs cannot be the ancestors of birds, especially since dinosaurs were created on day six, whereas birds were created on day five. An ancestor of an animal cannot come after its descendant.

11 “Then God said: Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth. And it was so.” On the third day God created the plants, separately from the animals. This also speaks about the impossibility of evolution. Whosoever wants to see evolutionary processes going on in the creation account cannot answer two things regarding the third day. Verse 5 tells us that a day is made up of a period of darkness and light. This is a day like how we experience every day. If the days of xreation were not experiential days, but millions of years, then this means that the plants created on day three of creation would have remained in darkness for a very long period of time. We know that plants need light. Light is repsonsible for the production of sugars (i.e. this is what is known as photosynthesis). If the third day was a million years long, then all plants would have wilted away and died. But where did plants recieve light before the creation of the sun? The answer is very simple – the omnipresent light was already there on the first day. Light is emitted not only by the sun; other sources can emit light. Mark 9:3 says that Jesus’ clothes radiated light when He was on the Mount of Transfiguration. Acts 9:3 also says that beams of light suddenly enveloped Paul. God created light, and has power over it. He can create light whenever He wants and in whatever form He wants. Nothing is impossible for God.

12-13. “And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. So the evening and the morning were the third day.” In this verse we read that the Earth sprouted grass and fruit-yielding tress, according to their kinds. Here again we have a case of antropomorphic description, where the plants grow out of the ground from their seed. This also means that plants have an entirely different origin from animals, since they were both created on separate days, with the fourth day intervening between the two. This also means that there is no connecting link (such as the single-celled Euglena ) between animals and plants. This verse also tells us that the trees and non-tree plants also have separate origins, since they were created next to each other in a single moment, unseparated by millions of years of evolutionary development. Plants also form different kinds based on the premises of the science of baraminology, mentioned earlier.

In verse 13 God declares that what He created is good. Death, destruction, rotting are all bad things. They all contradict God’s creative work. The second thing that evolution cannot answer regarding the third day is that many species of plants are pollenated by animals, such as by bees. If the days of creation were really millions of years long, then many plant species would not have been able to be pollenated, and thus they would not be able to reproduce, according to God’s command.

  1. “Then God said: Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years.” The events of the fourth day are different from those which have happened until now. In multipke ways we again see that man is in the focus of God’s attention, and is not the meaningless result of millions of years of random events. The heavenly bodies were created after the formation of the Earth, over and against the theory of evolution, which states that the sun came before the Earth. The heavenly bodies perform their tasks, by separating light from darkness. The task of providing a daily rhythm for man has now been placed by God into the sun and the moon. They demarcate days, months, and years. God creates temporal regularity by doing so. Rhythm, regularity, since God is the Author of order and the physical laws. The sun and the moon are placed in the firmament of heaven, which again is an anthropocentric way of describing things, just as today one would say that the sun is in the middle of the sky at noon.

15-16. “and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth. And it was so. Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also.” This verse also contradicts evolution. God speaks, and it happens. In moments, and not millions of years. The Bible does not recognize long periods of stellar evolution. God is greater and skillful than to spread out his work of creation over long periods of time. The god of theistic evolution is exceedingly incompetent and lazy. The God of the Bible is not like this.

17-19. “God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.” Here also God declares after one of His acts of creation that what He had done was good. God creates all sorts of good things. He creates the sun and the moon so that man can see things and measure time. God also has provision for the night as well. Darkness is not completely dark. If man needs to do something even at night, the moon is there to give him light. And for the fourth time evening anf morning came. Invariantly just as it did during the previous three days. This means that even though the source of light emitted on the face of the earth had changed, it still did not change in the rhythm of the days. The fourth day is an experiential day (24 hours), just like the third day. There was no change in daily rhythm after the days of creation, either. Today there is morning and evening, just as it was ever since the beginning of the world – another contradiction with evolution.

20-21. “Then God said: Let the waters abound with an abundance of living [e]creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the [f]firmament of the heavens. So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.” The fifth day is tied to the second day. Just as God created the aerial and the water environments, so on the fifth day He fills them with organisms. Fish swarmed in ths seas, and a multitude of birds flew across the skies. How many different kinds of fish and birds did God create? We know that in the beginning God created only one pair of humans, Adam and Eve. The Bible doesn’t speak in so much detail about the different kinds of animals, though. It may be that each bird kind consisted of several hundred or even thousands of individuals. This itself is plausible, since the birds flew across the entire sky, which would have been impossible if there were just two of each kind. God loves organisms and loves life as well. And thus He created the multitudes of fish and birds on the fifth day so that they could glorify God’s greatness and intelligence with their fine swimming movements and flying manouvers.

22-23. “And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth. So the evening and the morning were the fifth day.” God cares for the animals. God is the Author lof life, and death and decrepitude are foreign to Him. God builds and multiplies, and does not destroy. If animals could have died, they would not have been able to fulfill God’s commands to multiply with that specific endgoal in mind to fill the Earth. God wanted animals to be everywhere so that they could reflect His glory. This is why fish and birds had to reproduce and multiply. Each kind brought forth individuals just like itself. Kinds therefore stayed stable all throughout time, and one kind does not transform into another kind. Sharks never turn into whales, and swallos never turn into eagles.

24–25. „Then God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind. And it was so. And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.” Now comes the acts of creation of the sixth day. This is an important day, summarized in eight verses by the Bible. The first thing God does is He creates the animals on dry land. This way He fills the environment that He had created on the third day. Animals now are found nit just in the seas and in the air, but also on the dry ground. All kinds of animals: cattle, beasts and creeping things. God created animals according tot heir kinds besides the plants. Note here that the creeping animals do not consist of only one kind, but rather multiple kinds. Groups of kinds, which are made up of multiple kinds. Centipedes and crickets are creeping animals, but they both belong to separate kinds. This is because their body plan is fundamentally different, and they cannot interbreed.

This leads to the question, that if God created the macroscopic animals each according to their kinds, then what about bacteria and viruses, which we cannot observe? Are viruses even living things? The Bible does not say anything about this. The bacterium Staphylococcus aureus , which causes meningitis is not mentioned in the Bible. What about it? Which kind does it belong to? I personally think that bacteria also belong to kinds. The first people did not have microscopes, and therefore could not have seen bacteria. But just because the biblical authors did not see them, it could still be possible that they also formed kinds just like animals and plants. This is because living things are uniform. All organisms have DNA and have cellular structures. The unity of living things suggest the hand of God.

  1. “Then God said: Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” This is one of the most important verses in the creation account. It states that man has a special importance within the created world. Man is not just another animal. He is not of the same rank as a monkey or a cow. Only man was created in the image of God. Vice-versa, God only has a special relationship with man. God the Son (Jesus) became man. He did not become a monkey, nor a tiger, nor a camel. Only man has higher understanding, emotions, spirit and soul. Only man reflects something from God’s characteristics. The traits are the communicative attributes of God which are common between God and man.

God not only created man in His image, but also placed man above the animals to rule over them. God rules over the whole universe, but put man above the created organisms. Man is God’s representative, and God gave mankind a capability, to be able to fulfill his tasks. Man must subject the Earth to his rule. For this man must also know nature. God therefore gave man a command in this verse to pursue science!

Man is body and soul, and stands between the spiritual world and also the biological world. Man forms a single race. He brings forth individuals like himself. In contrast, angels form a host. They do not marry, nor do they multiply, since god created them each individually.

  1. “So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.” God created man male and female. He created them in two genders. Thus marriage is between only one man and one woman. Not between two men, or between two women, or between one man and four or more women. What’s more, there is no transition between genders. Transexualism, changing sex, and hermaphroditism are all forbidden by the Bible. Such exist today because of sin. Romans 1:26–27 also condemns homosexuality as unnatural. Homosexuality has consequences, sice AIDS spreads much, much more in gay communities, and gays also lose twenty years of life expectancy. Homosexuality is not genetic: when one twin is gay, the other is not in 90% of the cases. Gay theology has no biblical basis.

  2. “Then God blessed them, and God said to them, Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” Man has also been commanded to fill the earth. So that he could rule over the fish, the birds and the animals, which fill the seas, the air and the dry land, that is, over all three environments, making up the entire earth. Reproducing and multiplying contradict dearh, destruction, natural selection, and evolution. Life is God’s blessing.

29–30. “Then God said, See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food. And it was so.” God gave plants as food to man and also the animals. There were no carnivores in Eden. Man also did not hunt animals. Animals did not tear each other apart in bloody masses. Many carnivores can also eat plants. For example, species from the family of megabats (Pteropodidea) have sharp teeth, and can eat fruits. Sharks can also eat seaweed.

Plants do not have consciousness. They do not feel pain. They belong to a category of life different from that of animals. That is why God gave the plants to man and the animals for food. Plants produce sugars and proteins and other nutrients which are necessary for animals.

Animals also did not fear man as they do today. This is interesting, because circumstances were different than they are today in Eden. There was no animal death. Humans also did not die. If they could have died, they would not have been able to comply with God’s commands to fill the Earth as stated in verses 22 and 28.

God is not bloodihanded. He did not create illnesses or viruses. Most bacterial groups contain only a small proportion of harmful species. These species came about after the Fall into sin via mutations. God is a God of the living, not of the dead (Mark 12:27). The last enemy to be destroyed is death (1 Corinthians 15:26). God did not use evolution as a tool to create. Evolution is synonymous with the death and destruction of many, many species.

  1. “Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.” Genesis 1 ends with verse 31. God finished His acts of creation. This is another simple fact that contradicts evolution, which is allegedly a constant process. God worked in six stages (not according to a lengthy process). Therefore man must also work for six days according to His pattern. If the days of creation are millions of years long, then man would simply break down during his million year workday.

God declares that His creation is very good, without spot or blemish, there is no bad part or mistake in it. There is no death, wounds, or pain. God did not want this. Man brought pain and suffering upon himself in that he rebelled against God. Man’s sin was the reason for Christ’s coming. We all fell into sin in Adam, but can come alive again in Christ, the Second Adam. Jesus died for that sin which we all committed in Adam. If we believe in Jesus, we may have eternal life. We will have a living relationship with God again. We will not be damned, and will not die. We will have a new life, and will be a new creation. The Lord calls you today, answer him in faith, while it is possible.

The “plain reading” of these verses is that lions beget lions, cats beget cats, and horses beget horses. If the animal has a name assigned by Adam, that is what it stays. Why would the Hebrews have thought any differently? Baraminology is not anymore Biblically sanctioned than any other sort of evolution. Like most of what passes for YEC, baraminology is neither scientific nor in the Bible.

You cannot say, “Ignore science”, and then try to sneak it into the back door. If you think that only your interpretation of scripture is acceptable, you have left the world of science behind.

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IMHO, what you are describing is idolatry. Will every knee bow down and every tongue confess that the Bible is Lord?

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The main issue is that you’re missing the genre of genesis 1. You’re confusing it for a historical narrative, but nothing about it fits that style.

Just a minute I’ve got to massage some feeling back into my scrolling finger.

Okay, I can type again. I basically agree with you that Genesis has nothing to do with evolution. But the main reason is that the Bible was never intended as science.

The fact that all of life is united by DNA is pretty amazing. I remember reading in the Overstory novel about how trees shared 25% of our DNA. So different and yet still in our terrestrial family. I don’t know about them feeling no pain but lacking a nervous system it is hard to imagine how it would be anything like what we feel. But from that book and other reading I understand when a tree is threatened by an infestation it will release something to warn other trees in the area so they can begin manufacturing a chemical defense. So many ways to make a living, though as you point out, we really do depend on plants for our living. We can’t produce the energy we require directly from the sun. Life on this planet fits together like an elaborate puzzle.

Bariminology is just evolution minus a lot of the actual science. It’s full of inherent contradictions and imaginary scenarios that deny how speciation actually works.

In taking this approach, postcreationists are essentially rediscovering basic morphological phylogeny. While still claiming that the various baramins all have intrinsic, essential differences that render them totally unique and distinct from one another, they have arrived at a selection of representative progenitors for each which display a high degree of morphological similarity (Fig. 5). There is generally more morphological and genetic variation within each of the individual kinds identified by Answers in Genesis than within the collective group formed by their ancestors.
(…)
YECs have spent years insisting cats, dogs, hyenas, and bears (along with numerous other families) are all separate, distinct kinds and don’t share a common ancestor. Despite past reticence to acknowledge the common ancestry of carnivorans, the postcreationist tendency for greater inclusiveness of kinds over their predecessors might lead us to wonder whether the trend will continue, with the carnivoran “baramins” being combined further into a single consolidated carnivore kind which survived the Flood as a single pair on board Noah’s Ark and thereafter multiplied into the many species shown above. But, to do so, they would have to explain how a single common ancestor for all carnivores is a form of “extended microevolution” (Fig. 6) if they wanted to keep insisting that “macroevolution” is impossible.

Something else to consider.

Before Adam sinned , and before Eve sinned, there was already a evil serpent……sort of blows a hole in the perfect creation story you made up.

You do realize you are talking to a room full of Christians don’t you? When you imply a Christian isn’t a Christian what you are really saying is you aren’t my Brand of Christian and are therefore in danger of hell fire. Not a way to win friends and influence people.

PS: Most here have read Genesis multiple times so no need to quote it.
PSS: When you do a cut and paste it is only honest to include the source. Doing this on a school paper is not considered OK.
PSSS: That post was TLDNR.

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This means that you must apply Deuteronomy 25:13-16 to your study of creation, Matthew. I’ve gone over this already with you. Twice.

There are two things you need to understand about the Bible here. First, it has far, far, far, far more to say about the need for honesty and factual accuracy than about either the age of the earth or evolution. Second, it was written to be read in the context of the Real World, and not in some fantasy Lord of the Rings-esque alternate reality in which humans and dinosaurs fight each other in colosseums and nuclear decay rates change by a factor of a billion during times of global catastrophe. That’s why every Bible translation has maps telling you where Gilgal and Bokim were, and footnotes telling you what a bath and a hin and an ephah and a shekel and a cubit were in today’s measurements.

This being the case, any interpretation of Genesis 1, any creation model, any challenge to the scientific consensus on the age of the earth or evolution, must consist of honest reporting and honest interpretation of accurate information. Any approach to creation that does not do so is not scientific, is not Biblical, is not submitted to God’s authority, and does not accept God’s Word. Yes, Christianity is based on the Bible and cannot be independent from it, but that means first and foremost that you must tell the truth.

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To add as dale once said is that creation was not perfect it was merely very good.

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Sadly, some interpret it as a fantasy book both ironically and unironically. Though i do agree with it being meant to be read in the context of the real world.

Ha! Way more than once, and enough more that some are weary of it, I’m sure! XD

But now that you’ve mentioned it, it doesn’t look like I’ve posted it anywhere that @Matthew_Cserhati will have tripped over it yet :slightly_smiling_face:, since he’s new here. So again, for his sake, one more time…

It’s a bit old hat, but the mon is described in the bible as a light. The moon does not generate or produce light, it reflects the sun. From a nonscientific and generally simple perspective, the moon looks like a light in the sky. The knowledge about the cosmos was not known. If you are going to take Genesis 1 literally then we have a flat earth with a dome over it. That is what it says and no wordsmithing or whatever else you want to call it will change that.

Richard

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Correct! How could it? It has nothing to do with electromagnetism or banking regulation either.

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This isn’t really the enterprise. The enterprise is understanding what Genesis meant in its original cultural context to its original audience so you can properly ascertain the truth God is revealing through it to us today. Doing this leads to an interpretation that doesn’t conflict with facts that scientific study has revealed about the world. So that’s nice, but trying to read science (evolution or old earth) into the Bible or trying to make the Bible teach science (the Bible measures the date of the earth, contains observational data about the beginning of the world) is concordism. Most people here think concordism is a deficient hermeneutic and the texts should be approached on their own terms in light of their cultural context.

This is a bare assertion that I reject as a given. Multiple Bible scholars dispute this based on the text itself, and knowledge of ANE literature and Hebrew, first and foremost John Walton with his functional origins ideas.

Christians must place themselves under the authority of Christ, who is Lord and rules the world and whose lordship is revealed in Scripture. What YEC believers tend to mean by being under the authority of the Bible is being under the authority of their teaching about what the Bible means and entails. This is actually just spiritual manipulation and using religion to prop up authoritarian leadership because you are telling people you have to accept my teaching or your soul is in danger. Jesus saves, not the Bible. Christians are justified by their belief in Christ’s resurrection and their profession of Christ’s lordship. Romans 10:9-10

9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

Adding anything to this (i.e. you have believe there was no death before the fall, you have to believe Adam was the first Homo sapien, you have to believe creation happened in 6 24 hour days, you have to believe the whole world was destroyed in a flood, you have to reject millions of years and evolution) is adding to the gospel and including doctrines that have not historically been part of any creed of the Christian church.

It makes no sense to essentially say, “It is completely scientific because we don’t have to accept the scientific fact of common ancestry.” It’s not scientific. It’s a way of using scientific sounding jargon to describe something people made up out of their imaginations after running with their misguided interpretation of the biblical text. Bariminology is not biblical just because it uses a word found in the Bible and it is definitely not scientific just because it refers to speciation and genetics.

True. He can create life in whatever form he wants and diversify it through whatever process he wants, including evolution, because nothing is impossible with God.

The Bible is not a science textbook and this is concordism.

That is a subjective human judgment. Death and decay are also necessary for the nitrogen cycle, one of the many natural cycles that God has instituted to sustain the healthy flourishing of life on earth.

Which is why it’s really dumb to assume that people who accept evolution also accept a literal reading of Genesis with days that last a million years and everything emerging in the order of the creation week days. That is just your own misconception of what other people believe. Maybe you should take the time to actually understand the other position before arguing against it.

Why are you conflating deep time and evolution? Evolution is a model for the diversification of life. It has nothing to do with the Big Bang or cosmology or earth science. Evolution isn’t what you need to argue against “millions of years,” it’s physics, chemistry, and geology.

This is stuff you made up, not something the Bible teaches.

One could say the same thing about the alleged global flood, which God did.

Also, if “sin entering the world” and “mutations” magically converts herbivores to carnivores and introduces new species, maybe even a few new kingdoms of life forms, then evil is a personal entity with agency and creative power, which is theologically problematic. The only real option you have if you insist that all death and decay are post-fall is that God the creator created the bad stuff as a punishment.

Cutting and pasting some stuff I’ve written out before…

In the YEC scenario you have a ‘perfect’ world, but somehow Satan is on the loose, actively trying to ruin God’s creation. You have an entirely different creation than the one we have now, if there is no animal death and no animal predation or carnivory. (Leaving aside that such a world would be unsustainable and quickly become “imperfect” since the life cycles that keep nature healthy and population levels in ecosystems in harmony depend on death and decay as part of the cycle.) You possibly have no tectonic plate activity and a different weather system, since there would be no ‘natural evils’ like volcanoes, earthquakes, and hurricanes, which cause death. To get from that hypothetical ‘perfect’ world to what we see now, essentially, you have to posit a second, unrecorded, creation event where God recreates or un-creates many of the herbivores into carnivores and scavengers and invents crop blight and stinging nettles and malaria, just to punish humans and make their lives difficult. You have God instituting new natural cycles, changing the weather and geology, fundamentally altering the biology of creatures (carnivores have different teeth, jaws, and digestive systems than herbivores), and creating diseases, pests, and genetic defects.

In that scenario God is proactively creating every way the world is currently imperfect or contributes to death, and you have him going about the act of special creation in an apparently degenerate way, motivated not by love and holiness and artistry, but by the need to curse his fallen human children for their sin.

Theologically this sounds much more problematic to me than the idea that God declared ‘good’ a world that included death and disease as part of its natural order.

Some people make it out like God did not actively create these imperfect things, they just “happened” as a result of sin, but that in untenable in my book. God is the source of all creation. Evil and sin are not creators. When creationists insist that when Adam and Eve ate fruit there was this “change” that radically impacted the structure and function of all creation, either they are saying sin has “magical” creative powers (like in the Disney movies where the princess pricks her finger on the spindle of the spinning wheel and everything gets scary) or God himself purposely changed and redesigned his creation.

I affirm that God is the creator of all that is. I don’t know how anyone ascribes creative power to “sin.” Sin is a state of rebellion, not a personal entity with agency. Sin affects how created things interact, it doesn’t create new things. Thorns, malaria carrying mosquitoes, Ebola, poisonous snakes, these are all part of God’s creation. Sin did not design them or bring them into existence.

So that leaves us with God proactively re-doing creation to make it cursed. This brings in problems with the character of God. If natural evil is something God allows to exist in his creation, that is one thing. It has its theological and philosophical problems. (That’s why we call it “the problem of evil”) But if natural evil is something God did not intend for creation, but puts there on purpose, because he is forced to or because he wants to, all based on a human choice, that means either God’s hand is forced by humans or God created all bad things as a punishment. That is more problematic theologically and philosophically. That’s saying God imagined and purposely created Ebola, because …sin.

One of them. Jesus is also the perfect image bearer of God (Colossians 1:15) and his life mattered too, not just his sacrificial death. He came to model and teach how to bear Gods image faithfully as a human, and his Incarnation permanently united God with his creation. Jesus rules the world as a resurrected, glorified, human. He did not un-Incarnate after the work of redeeming sinners was completed. So that tells me that the atonement was not the only reason for the Incarnation. It is God’s intention to dwell with us as Emmanuel, through uniting us with Christ in his Spirit in the present and coming again to live with his people in the Eschaton.

Sinning “in Adam” is a big misunderstanding based on Augustine relying on a mistranslation by Jerome in the Vulgate.

That is all that is required.

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May I direct you to the new topic I was forced to create so that we can discuss this assertion of yours along with any underlying pre-requisites
Richard

What? Who told you that “Moses wrote Genesis 1”? What evidence of that did that person present to you? And why did you choose to believe that man-made assertion?

It would be most unwise to base your faith on the undefended assertion that “Moses wrote Genesis 1”.

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@Matthew_Cserhati, my brother the Bible clearly teaches that a Christian MUST never bend his/her knee to anything or anyone except God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. In fact, the Jewish at the time of Jesus strongly believed in the Bible and followed its rules, but they did not follow Jesus Who is God, so they were lost.

In fact Jesus pointed out that the Bible is mistaken where it says that God rested after the sixth day of creation, because Jesus said that God the Father has never rested nor has God the Son. They are still creating, just as evolution is still continuing. See John 5:16-18.

John 1:1-2, 14. gives us the New Testament Creation story to help us understand Gen 1 & 2. Please learn Who Jesus, the true Word (Logos) of God is and how He makes all the difference in who we are and what we do.

I spent last weekend in intensive teaching about the Genesis. Lessons and discussions from early morning to late evening.

It was interesting to see what happened when a group with diverse opinions and varying background information were led inside the world of ancient inhabitants and culture of that region. The group became exited when they started to see how the first chapters of Genesis were connected to that world.

Differing opinions about the creation of the world according to Genesis 1 versus evolution became a non-issue as the group understood that the message was intended to answer questions that were relevant in that culture and to challenge the teachings of the prevailing religions. Genesis 1 was not intended to answer our questions and had nothing to do with the modern creation versus evolution debate.

After the weekend, the group was surprisingly like-minded about the way how Genesis 1 should be interpreted. There are of course differing opinions about the way how apparent patterns in the text should be interpreted. Yet, none of the group were anymore talking or even interested about the modern debate about evolution vs. creation according to Genesis 1.

A positive example of how diving into the world of biblical scriptures can change the thinking of believers. I recommend.

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“Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” -Colossians 4:6

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