Do you accept all of his faith based assumptions that lead him to this date?
Does this mean you accept a literal reading of Genesis 1-11? The earth is only 6,000 years old?
And just a general comment here. All YEC come up with a date in this range so Dr. Hasel isn’t special.
Further comment when you answer the questions.
No. I have not read them.
No. Bible never says that. Ushher came up with 4004 bce on genealogical, not geological considerations. I see no contradiction between science and genealogy.
But you trust his date which is based on them.
So genealogy is ok for dating the flood but not for dating the creation of the world, or at least the first humans. Why the difference?
And just so you know where I am going. Since the genealogies don’t work for dating the appearance of the first modern humans why should we accept the date for the flood based on the same flawed genealogies?
Edit to add:
If you ignore the genealogies and just look at Genesis as describing the beginnings of agriculture then it would actually work out fairly well as agriculture began about 10,000 years ago. For which we have archeological evidence that is outside the Bible. Which, surprise, surprise, gets you to the time frame for the Persian Gulf flood.
Bible does not say about first humans.
Agriculture evolved at different times in different locations between 10k and 3k bce. Further, there is no mention of evolution of agriculture. Adam was told to do agr. Does not mean he was the first.
OK then, Adam and Eve. You do agree that the Bible tells us about Adam and Eve and the Bible dates them to 6,000 years ago, correct? Given you accept the genealogy. And if you don’t accept that they were the first modern humans what is the point of telling us their origin?
But the story says he was.
My point being you are picking and choosing again. Pick the parts that agree with you and discard the parts that don’t.
Make up anything I want and call it truth because I said so?
The ‘Flood’ is merely the Egyptian creation epic.
The Solar Barque of Ra sailed over the chaotic cosmic waters of Nu (from which we derive Nuah), looking for the first signs of Land. This was discovered by the Phoenix - the Primaeval Mound of the Ben-ben.
The Ark of Ra carried pairs of gods, two by two. etc: etc:
R
The flood epic is common. How do we decide which is original?
My understanding is that they were the first to think independently. This thinking led to growth. Hence creation.
Pl explain what I am not addressing.
I don’t know what you define as “think independently” but the behaviors of modern humans began about, depending on who you want to believe, 150,000 years ago. Well before the 6,000 years indicated by the Genesis genealogy.
You are not addressing the problems with using the genealogies to date the flood for instance. There is a whole host of issues but here are a few.
Noah is still alive when Abraham is born.
Shem outlives Abraham.
The records from Egypt show there is a longer period of time between the flood and Abraham then indicated in Genesis.
The fantastically long life spans indicate the genealogy isn’t intended to represent actual history.
Genesis indicates Adam was the father of all of humanity, which obviously isn’t the case.
So which parts of Genesis do you accept and which parts do you discard (or explain away).
Once you get to Abraham the dating is closer to what archeology says but even then it is off by hundreds of years. Which doesn’t give me confidence the genealogy can be trusted to set dates.
Yes. But Genesis tells of the creation of male and female before the creation of Adam from dust. The former appears to match with 160 kya.
It seems to me that the life spans may represent their lineages or “dynasties.”
Now allow me to place the overall picture.
In order to assess the possibility of the Flood in Mesopotamia (8000 BCE or 3000 BCE) versus Indus Valley (3000 BCE), I suggest, let us look at all the evidences.
Geography 1 Flood Waters. MP (Mesopotamia): No evidence of flood waters staying for 150 days. IV (Indus Valley): Bowl-like structure near Jalore could hold waters for 150 days.
Geography 2 Distance between Flood area and Ararat traversable by boat: MP: Ararat Mountains are located 600-1000 km from the flood area. Aravalli mountains located 150 km from the flood area.
Archaeology: MP: Evidence for habitation at 8000 BCE. Evidence of flood at 3000 BCE. IV: Floods on Luni River started at 3000 BCE.
Names: MP: No name parallel to Noah. IV: The name “Ararat” not found in ancient texts. IV: “Noah” is written as “Noach” which is then also written as “Manowach.” “Manowach” and “Manu” both have the same two consonants “M” and “N.” Ararat=Aravalli. The name Jalore of the place where the flood took place means “city of water.”
Literature: MP: Gilgamesh tells of the Flood in Dilmun that is identified with the Indus Valley by Kramer. No flood tale, to my knowledge, in Sumeric literature. IV: A flood took place at the time of Vaivaswat Manu. He was saved in a boat with 7 persons.
The first problem that comes up when you assume the flood was local is why was an ark needed? With the amount of warning Noah was given he could have just walked out of the area. What do the residents of Jalore do when it floods? They either walk out or wait out the flood would be my guess.
But there is evidence if you go back to 8000 BCE. With the plus that the Persian Oasis provides a plausible location for the Garden of Eden.
You have to prove that the Ararat in the text is the same mountain as the one with that name today. Some scholars, including you, think place names have changed.
See The Great Flood: Sumerian version - Livius
And the Persian Oasis flooding would provide the source for the various flood stories. A source that would be very memorable given the size and extent of the flooding.
If there is still evidence under the Persian gulf, that is evidence for a flood not flowing into the sea.
Possible. I do not want to repeat my post 253. We have to make a comparative assessment.
No need to “prove.” Perhaps it cannot be proven. Let us examine whether it matches with the Biblical description.
Ziusudra was another name of Gilgamesh who says the Flood took place in Dilmun. So no Flood legend in Sumer,
Possible. But I have seen no evidence of a flood in the Persian Gulf.
“Local” does not mean 10 km. “Local” in the present context could be 500 km. That would be sufficient to drown.
That is a big “if.” Further, the “Flood” would mean rise in water level that would recede, i.e., flow into the sea.
And you never deal in big ifs. XD
Receding only requires uncovering some mountains, and not at all necessarily receding to the antediluvian level.
Pl consider all points in my post 253.
“Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” -Colossians 4:6
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