I am using google earth. For whatever reason it won’t load on mine. Don’t know why. I’ll try deleting and updating the app later.
It certainly appears that one side of the “bowl” is actually flat and a road is clearly seen entering, but without accurate elevation data it is hard to say how this area could retain water.
This is picture of a village on the north bank of the Luni river. THis was take 2 months after the monsoons had receded. It shows stagnant waters. A similar situation may have led to 150 days waters as told in the Bible.
This is a picture of the Flood-prone areas of the State of Rajasthan. It shows flooding near Jalore.
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Donpartain 1: ERETZ is the same “earth” that sprouts vegetation (Genesis 1:11)
BJ 1: The area has deserts all around. The sprouting would indicate in the area.
Donpartain 2: receives light from the luminaries (1:15)
BJ 2The word Eretz has many meanings: land 1436, earth 546, ground 152, lands 54, country 28, territory 25, countries 19, earth’s 13, world 9, region 9, homeland 8, wild 8, local 6, area 5, neighboring 5, nations 4, place 4, floor 3, citizens 3, soil 3, areas 2, landed 2, land’s 2, surrounding 2, towns 2, regions 2, northland 2, home 2, downward 1, entire 1, earth’s surface 1, Canaan 1, dry desert 1, die 1, all 1, Negev 1, Syria 1, army 1, everywhere 1, district 1, dirt-covered 1, Israel 1, Egypt 1, you 1, surrounding lands 1, spot 1, resident 1, prematurely 1, them 1, underworld 1, wild animals 1, way 1, valley 1, places 1, northern 1, inhabitants 1, homelands 1, fields 1, fell to the ground unfulfilled 1, inhabited world 1, midair 1, netherworld 1, nearby 1, nation 1, exile 1
The use in Gen 1:15 is in cosmological sense. I cannot be transferred to Flood automatically.
Donpartain 3: and the same “earth” over which man and woman are to exercise dominion (1:26,28). So, clearly, it’s not just limited to some “region” of the earth.
BJ 3: Again, the context of Gen 1 is cosmological; not automatically flood.
Donpartain 4: Furthermore, ERETZ is the word for “earth” in Genesis 6:13, where God says He will “destroy them (the corrupt people living on earth) with the earth. ” So, “earth” here is not referring to the people living upon the earth, but referring to the earth itself.
BJ 4: See above. cannot be transferred to Flood automatically.
Donpartain 5: Keep this in mind when reading 2 Peter 3:6, where Peter says that God destroyed the “world” (kosmos) with the Flood. You argue that kosmos is simply referring to the people, not to the earth itself. While it’s true that kosmos can be used simply to refer to the people living upon the earth (e.g., John 3:16), kosmos can also be used to refer to the earth itself–the habitation of people. And paralleling this passage with Genesis 6:13 also makes it clear that “earth” and “world” are referring to the earth itself. In fact, in 2 Peter 3:5-7, 13, “world” is interchanged with “heavens and earth.”
BJ 5: 2 Peter 3:6: “through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water.” Note “at that time.” This could just as well refer to the “Comos known at that time.” So here it could be used as in John 3:16.
(C’mon Bill, slip away quietly now, unless you already have, everyone else has.)
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Stagnant water sure, but there is a lot of land still high and dry. Not what I would call a flood that covers the top of the mountains even if it hangs around for 150 days. The flooding in this area doesn’t appear to be bad enough to force people to move. This is just a flat flood prone area, not unlike other regions in the world. In fact there is an area near me that was under water for most of a year following a 100 year flood. Now that is a model for the Flood story.
And you refuse to reply to the discovery of human settlements and evidence of massive flooding under the current Persian Gulf which are actually a better fit to Genesis.
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(Somehow, that seems like it might be relevant and should be acknowledged. ; - )
I posted that pic to show stagnant waters. The floods in Mesopotamia flow into the sea and do not stagnate.
I am aware of the rise of sea. Aparently the sea level has risen about 3-5 meters in the last 5k years. Not sufficient to relocate Flood in the Persian Gulf. In any event, the stagnation would not take place.
C’mon Klax, you know that an ant mill doesn’t have an exit ramp.
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Purpose of this message. To further explore through conversation.
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Conversation about flood.
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Conversation about God is perfect. I ask is big bang perfect, due to Torath Mosheh Jews believe Elohim = big bang
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I ask about love and unconditional love, in relation to any flood.
@Klax as you claim love
I understand unconditional love
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What is the difference from love and unconditional love?
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What type of love, unconditional love did God display when flooding the whole world? I think flood is local but for the sake of analyzing how do you think God’s love is in relation to flooding the whole world? And how is this different or same to unconditional love?
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What things did people do that caused God to flood the whole world and did it solve this type of behavior that people did?
Klax: except by transcendence. He’s perfect
RS: what is except by transcendence and what is perfect when referring to God?
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Is God = big bang, is big bang perfect?
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When earth, local floods, (don’t have to be floods with any ties to Noah) so any floods that cause people to suffer, is there any relation to this word perfect, and people caused floods due to their behaviors?
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What would happen if someone blamed peoples behaviors now in relation to any floods, would people listen to that person?
Torath Mosheh Jews believe Elohim = big bang
Here’s a video explaining Elohim = big bang
transcript from audio google translate fail some words., but shows where in video, if you want to hear for yourself
12:51
okay if someone says in their language you know the Big Bang calls the University exists in the Hebrew language
12:56
ancient and modern Elohim would be the same as equaling to Big Bang so first and says okay well you know what are the
13:03
terms can be used to bore a Allah is another term that’s used in Hebrew same thing that we’re dealing with the source
Look a Jew used a word Allah
Remember we’re talking about the big bang. Let’s continue
13:08
of creation so you could say in one language is the Big Bang and another in our language it’s Elohim over a bore a
13:14
whole alone so what this means in short is that a Shem is the source of
I think transcript fail as that should be Hashem not a shem
13:19
all reality ie the cause of reality and at the moment we’re just simply dealing with linguistics you say Big Bang we say
13:26
Elohim you say Big Bang we say beret all along essentially that you say the Big Bang caused the you know the universe to
13:32
come into existence we say well that in our language is Elohim or Bray all along okay so again when we get into the Big
I think google mistaken that word Bray. Google audio translated this video. But you can listen to video to get actual word ok.
13:40
Bang a lot of the information that’s provided about what the Big Bang is is conceptual and the reason why we say
13:46
it’s conceptual is because the term Big Bang is simply a term it’s meaning that whether or not there was like if
14:42
that says okay that at this point you know when the Big Bang happened these are the kind of concepts of what
43:08
is the Big Bang in you know this language is Elohim or Borriello alone thus there’s no reason to consider
Ok I think google translator mistaken borriello but you can listen to video
The purpose of this video is to show a Jew from Israel and how Torath Mosheh Jews believe Elohim = big bang
Now I hope I did ok on the topic of flood as I did trail off to big bang. But this is a conversation right? How am I doing with conversation so far in this thread may I ask you @Klax
I do believe flood is local and some how story became larger through oral, however I can still analyze flood of whole world too, however it does puzzle me how that can happen? I mean what is water and did water leave evidence if covers the whole world?
Hopefully I have provided enough information so you are a little more aware of the changes in sea level.
Take a look at this article
Note the mention of 4 rivers, including the Tigris and Euphrates. This area would be considered a real garden spot.
You can find more in “New Light on Human Prehistory in the Arabo-Persian Gulf Oasis” by Jeffrey I. Rose.
I have lost a reference to a good paper on the subject but in my search I did come across this
Late Quaternary sea-level changes of the Persian Gulf
Edit to add:
And I think I found the lost reference.
The geomorphological and hydrogeological evidences for a Holocene deluge in Arabia
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If there is evidence still underwater, that more than suggests that some flood or another didn’t flow all the way away into another sea!
Don’t you see the time gap? We are talking of flood at 3000 be.
Do place it on the table.
Please match it with 3000 bce flood.
Why? The table is not underwater.
Ever heard of the water table?
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After you place your evidence for the 3000 BCE date on the table.
The date for Noah suggested by Gerhard F. Hasel, Professor of Old Testament and Biblical Theology at Andrews University is between 3402 and 2462 BCE (Hasel, Gerhard F., Professor of Old Testament and Biblical Theology, Andrews University, “The Meaning of the Chronogenealogies of Genesis 5 And 11, 1980,” www.bible.ca/b-bible-chronology-hasel.htm).