Even while there is a general difference between the old and new covenants, and even while they are emphasized somewhat in a parallel fashion in Old and New Testaments, it is also true that they are intermingled and utterly dependant on each other.
It was the old covenant and the “law” that revealed to us our need for the new covenant, which was already promised in the old testament in many places and many ways. Further, as the apostle Paul revealed, the new covenant does not nullify the law (old covenant), even though the new covenant is better than the old. We are incapable of keeping the old covenant, while the new covenant is God’s work in us.
@Mazrocon You mentioned that Jesus visited Native Americans in the past. Can you tell me more about this, as well as the numerous cities where archeology is lacking? Oh, for what purpose would these folks believe Jesus visited Native Americans? What can Native Americans tell us now about Jesus’ visit back then?
Oh, have you ever heard of the Meena community? The Meena community believes they are descended from Manu. The flooding was local at Jalore. Do you know anything about this? I’m curious if the Meena community was known to the American Indians.
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
185
Does this have something, anything to do with God in Christ?
You could also contact the Mormons directly-- LDS.org– and they could send some missionaries to your house to explain their beliefs to you, at no charge. They would be happy to answer your questions. Let us know how it goes!
Nothing wrong with the story. The wrong is with geography. Mesopotamia does not have floods that last 150 days. The timing of the flood was autumn as per Jewish tradition. Iraq flood take place in spring.
You have never addressed the flooding of the Persian Gulf which fits the time frame for the Genesis story and given the scope would have certainly fit the criteria of “the whole earth.”
Any floods that would match the size of the Persian Gulf flood?
Or how about asking the Mormon missionaries to join this thread and we can have a conversation about whether the flooding was local at Jalore or else where?
That way you’ll have more Mormons along with you here., what do you think?
I need to learn how to articulate my boundaries. I want to remain in the typing world, when it’s about spirituality, where there’s topics to explore.
I don’t want to convert to any religion.
So can you invite all the missionaries here in this thread? Lets have a conversation where this flood was located, at Jalore or else where?
I appreciate this if your willing to invite them here in this thread. Thank you
I’m not a Mormon. I don’t know any Mormons currently serving missions. You are the one who wants to know all this stuff, so why not contact them yourself?
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Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
194
All we know about God, if anything, is from the Incarnation story, preserved by the Church, and its impact on Paul above all, before the much later gospels.
God incarnated in to Jewish culture. A distinctive, ancient culture with a phenomenal number of divers yet more ancient cultural influences. At the crossroads of the world, the pivot of thousands of years.
Which naturally has nothing whatsoever to do with God. Because the God we see through a glass darkly in Christ, for the first time, is still golden head in the clouds above His Jewish feet of clay.
God as He is, is not the monster of the OT. Or even the NT inseparable from it, except by transcendence. He’s perfect.
I’ve seen white light in people radiate out of people while light still in people. I think white light is God.
When you explain golden head in the clouds above His Jewish feet of clay, is that symbols? What about the tribe of Benjamin, are they feet of clay too? How come color Golden for head?
When you say preserved by the Church. Church is people right? Or are you talking about a group of what?
Are there any family trees from the disciples? I’m curious? Did the disciples have children?
Saul Murder then was blind and had his name changed to Paul. I wonder how come God chosen Paul for., as he was murdering people?
What did God use Paul for? He wrote letters right., did he write scrolls, how did he make those scrolls while in prison?
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
197
A bit of info on paleomagnetism:
The earth’s magnetic field is produced by the movement of molten iron in the outer core. Not surprisingly, a magnet based on fluid moving around is more complex and dynamic than a familiar simple bar magnet. The magnetic poles move around (by over 2000 km since the location of the north magnetic pole was identified in 1831, and recently sped up to about 50 km per year). Although currently the north and south magnetic poles provide the strongest signal, there is actually complex variation place to place around the globe. Also, from time to time, the magnetic field flips, so that compass north needles would point south, and then back again. The sun has a fairly regular cycle of flipping over and back on a roughly 22 year cycle, but the earth’s cycle is rather more irregular and long-term. The exact causes and dynamics are not well-understood, though there has been some progress in modeling the process.
During a magnetic reversal, organisms that use the magnetic field for navigation might get somewhat confused, though it’s not certain how fast either the magnetic field or the organisms might change. The field would likely be somewhat weaker than today as well, thus allowing more radiation to reach the surface of the earth. But there haven’t been any particular associations of extinction with magnetic reversals - it doesn’t look like it has major effects. These days, we depend heavily on electronics that often are rather sensitive to magnetic disruption, so there is some risk of fouling up computers even more than Microsoft normally does.
Reversals have happened many times throughout earth history. They provide a useful way of matching up geologic layers and are one of the very many pieces of evidence for a great age of the earth. I have seen a young-earth claim that a particular magnetic reversal happened very fast, which in turn supposedly proved that other things happened very fast. But in reality the evidence for that reversal happening so fast is not definite. Even if a reversal can happen quite quickly, that is not enough to become compatible with a young-earth model. The field has to reverse, a few kilometers of seafloor rock have to be made along the midocean ridges and a bunch of sediment, lava flows, ash layers, etc. have to be deposited, and then it flips again several hundred times within the course of geologic history. Cramming any significant part of that into a single year simply does not work.
How come no one can explain gravity and yet this word “gravity” is well known?
Yet people can explain magnetic fields. Why is that?
What are your thoughts about Noah’s flood didn’t happen around the world but happened locally and through time the story was reidentified to happen around the world?
Would that cause no interest in the story if the story remained only known locally?
How do stories capture people’s interests? Can you share how that happens?
Just because it still has unanswered questions about it, doesn’t mean it cannot be explained. We can measure gravity waves, and the deforming of space time by mass and thus involving gravity is fascinating to me. It is sort of interesting how we and ancient people all take gravity for granted. We have this force that pulls everything in a downward direction, and it seems we just go on through life not thinking about how strange that is, at least until Newton came around.
Floods are common events locally, even in desert areas, and are usually very impressive and devastating when they occur giving long cultural memories. People tend to live near water sources in low lying areas, so are often affected. In my own lifetime, the most memorable natural events have been flood events. Despite that, I do not associate these cultural memories of different flood events with Noah’s Flood, as they are usually identified as a regional flood, and Noah’s flood would have had to precede habitation in those areas by a long time.
An interesting question, and perhaps one better suited to our friends who are more expert in literature than I. Off the top of my head, for a story to have lasting impact, would have to have some sort of explanatory value or moral lesson. Flood stories can do both, explaining both the geologic findings and teaching something about the powers of the universe.
