Was Abraham Father of the Jews or of Humanity?

[Dale (evolutionary providentialist)]

@riversea

do I @riversea go to Satan or God?

I think I already answered that:
 

@Dale

Anything that points away from [or diminishes] Jesus is a lie.

[riversea]

Abraham saw land

[riversea]

Abraham saw sky

[riversea]

Abraham saw animals

[mitchellmckain (Scientist and Christian)]

Good reason for me to choose the Bible over the Qur’an.

I believe in the shepherd creator of the Bible rather than this watchmaker (design machine maker) of Deism and the Qur’an. God made the universe as a womb of life in which living things could grow, learn, make choices, because that is what life is. Design is the work of those who create dead things – tools made for an end in which life and free will serves no useful purpose. This “perfect design” theology is not only incompatible with science but is poor theology also. Unless God has left us to perfect our own design with our own choices, learning and growth, the evil of the world is an accusation of evil in its creator.

Ah… but I suppose I am missing the point of your post. I would not say that God designed us perfectly and thus we dare not make any modification BUT that any modification should be our own choice. Therefore I cannot say I would favor this practice of some Muslims any more than I would favor the ear piercing of babies or even worse… the SF idea that parents could modify the very genetics of their children to suit themselves.

Genetic alterations to remove congenital disease and handicaps is a more complex issue – the idea being to give them more choices rather than take their choices away from them.

[Dale (evolutionary providentialist)]

@Dale

but None of These Diseases goes into it some.

It’s been decades, probably more than five, since I read the first edition paperback, so I can’t speak to the latest version, but I still remember the bit about circumcision, its multiple benefits for men and women, and the timing with respect to the baby’s vitamin K level. It also mentions trichinosis and the prohibition on pork, and I think shellfish and high cholesterol and maybe food allergens, among other things.

The baby’s own vit. K production overshoots the mom’s level and peaks on the eighth day before stabilizing. Guess what day the Bible mandates circumcision (I don’t think Whitman mentions that).

[riversea]

Abraham knows how to walk

[riversea]

Abraham seen water

[beaglelady]

@Terry_Sampson

Thank you for telling me that you are “way younger” than me. Perhaps that will satisfy @beaglelady’s curiosity.

I am not curious about RiverSea’s age, and I never asked. It would be inappropriate. What I wanted to know is why you referred to her as a kid.

[marta]

@riversea

now I want to find out if there’s a fb page where females can continue their religion and not have FGM done to them

Riversea, as already explained by @beaglelady no major religion requires FGM, if anybody told you that they were misinformed. It’s performed mainly in African countries, and some happen to be Muslim, but this tradition mainly originates from tribal believes that unfortunately still continues. And also I would like to add that you really cannot compare it with male circumsituon.

[riversea]

Abraham seen clouds

[marta]

@riversea

I also think there is no need for male circumcision

There are medical conditions that may require this procedure, some also claim medical benefits. Not everyone who’s is curcumsised undergone this procedure for religious reasons.

@riversea

No FGM was done to me. I am doing fine with my body. I say this to proof that no need for FGM

Riversea, you don’t have to prove anything, it’s universally acknowledged that there’s no need nor benefits to FGM, only negative consequences.

@riversea

I kept seeing youtube videos where people thought their religion required for FGM

Are they religious scholars? Do they claim to have expertise in their religion? If they have no credentials, then they’re simply mistaken.
A lot of FGM happens in Muslim countries, but procedure predates it, so we cannot blame it on Islam. Some claim that Qur’an doesn’t explicitly ban it, but it’s as far as it goes, nobody HAS TO do it.

@riversea

I hope in India they don’t do FGM and they don’t do male circumcision

A quick online search will reveal that unfortunately they do it in India as well.

@riversea

So I yet want to find a fb page that educates that allows for people to follow their religion without FGM for people around the world. I found fb page educating for males, so yet what about females?

You keep bringing up you tube videos, well if somebody has access to YT they also should have access to websites that could educate them in a matter of minutes…

[jpm (Phil McCurdy)]

You present excellent points, Marta. My impression is that FGM is primarily used as a tool of patriarchal societies in the oppression of women, which certainly awful, and part of the curse of sin from a Christian perspective.

If there is no further discussion of the topic of Abraham as the father of humanity, at least in the spiritual sense, perhaps it is time to wrap this thread up. Any last comments relevant to the topic?

[bharatjj (Let the Truth Out)]

We have strayed far from the topic. It is for u to decide whether to close or being back.

[riversea]

Abram will learn his name is Abraham

[riversea]

Abraham can speak

[bharatjj (Let the Truth Out)]

The question is how do we see judaism? What is primary? 1. Laws such as circumscision. 2. Biological inheritance such as the land of canaan. 3. Philosophical inheritance such as one god.

[Bill_II]

Judaism is based on the belief that one God established a covenant with a group of people. The covenant granted the people a claim to land. God provided a set of laws for the Jews to follow which included circumcision and dietary restrictions among others.

So what is primary is the belief in one God. IMHO.

[bharatjj (Let the Truth Out)]

If u see opening thread, the bible is clear on one god. Not clear on land and laws. The land could be given to biological descendants or spiritual descendants.

[bharatjj (Let the Truth Out)]

@Terry_Sampson

I believe that everybody here and in this forum consider FGM a reprehensible practice that should be forbidden and discouraged, whether motivated by any religion or not.

I agree entirely. At the same time we may ponder whether there is a moral difference in circumscision of, say, a 3 yr old boy and fgm of a 3 yr old girl.