Wanting to be Christian, Struggling to Commit

Faith & Science Conversation
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Hello, everyone! This is my first time posting in any forum, and I wanted to say that the conversation I have observed here has been interesting and helpful (sometimes, as I will explain). Most of you seem to think about the matters of faith and science seriously and open-mindedly, which is refreshing and why I am writing this.

I’m reaching out because I have been going through a crisis of faith for almost 2 years now. I have been a Christian all my life, and while I dislike labels with baggage, I can see my tradition being in the “fundamentalist” category. I’d never really heard good arguments for other perspectives of faith (or non-faith), but when I came across an atheist on Youtube who seemed a decent person with sensible reasons, it rocked my world in ways I’ve never felt before. This happened at the same time our church had a big split, and most of my trusted mentor figures left without making much effort to keep in contact.

Since then, I have battled with my mental health and the ability to find meaning or purpose in life. I want to be a follower of Christ, and I want to believe in His resurrection. But the rabbit trails of internet searches, podcasts, and forums have so many interpretations, so many opinions, so many claims to the “Truth”… I really don’t know what to do. Some say the Old Testament was really written through Israelite history, while others say it was made up later (my issue isn’t with the literal interpretation of scripture—I have adjusted to other views). Some say Jesus really said what is recorded in the gospels, while others say it’s mostly embellishments and fabrications. Some say there is good reason to believe in a physical resurrection, while others say it’s bogus. Our consciousness may have a spiritual nature, or it may just be material. The materialistic worldview makes sense, but so does the Christian one. At this point, I feel like I can’t even trust my own judgement, opinions, and experiences out of fear of “cognitive bias,” “wishful thinking,” new information making me more in favor of naturalistic perspectives, or some form of subjectivity never letting us see reality for what it is.

I said the conversation has been helpful here, but primarily for the assorted questions I have that fall under the bigger ones. At the same time, it has made my confusion worse. My drive behind the searching comes from wanting God to be real and personal, and wanting meaning to be something real, not just made up by what we want. I want to commit, even if I don’t have all the answers, because I know deep down that we never will. But after all the information and views I’ve overloaded into my mind, I don’t know how to move forward in faith in Christ without some objection keeping my paralyzed.

This is a place that focuses on science. I get that, and I acknowledge that my inquiry could be irrelevant to the discussions here. But for those willing to answer that have landed in the Christian faith: Have any of you been where I’ve been? How did you choose God in the face of the endless conflicting interpretations? What should someone like me do now that I’ve exhausted my brain and stripped myself of confidence in my own ability to choose the right thing?

If anyone needs me to explain or elaborate further on anything, Let me know. I appreciate any thoughts.

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I think many of us have been there. The Christian life to me is not all block and white, and definitely is a life long journey of growth and maturing. Fundamentalism, whether Christian or Islamic is attractive because it tends to be black and white, and has all the answers laid out for us, but just doesn’t ring true with what we experience in life.

One the the real ironies seems to be that that around here, the Bible tends to be interpreted in a more enchanted or metaphysical manner than the rigid material way of literalists. My advice on exhausting your brain over different interpretations, is to accept the good as well as the uncertainty, as the Bible is meant not to be a rigid book of rules but a guide to wisdom and growth.

Oh, and welcome to posting here. Great post and thoughtful, by the way.

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Mark 9:24. “I believe; help my unbelief.”

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The condition We’re in is the Bible of Old and New Testament is of two separate Spirits. One being Jewish of the God of Abraham, the other of Jesus being Born Again converting The God t Abraham to be Our Father when We are Born Again. This now makes Us in a Loving Family of Siblings of Our Loving Father. The Old Testament is of Punishment as in Deuteronomy, and whatever differences there are. The Old Testament does have The Ten Commandments of God, whereas The New tells us we’re just Children and We need Forgiveness in order to sustain Loving each other.

This all makes life a bit Confusing.

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How does the materialistic worldview make sense? Does the radio make sense to you? does it generate the music inside it or does it receive the information and turns it into audio?

If you want to be a serious Christian you have to get away from the Santa Clause God mentality that fulfils wishes upon prayer.

Having grown up in the Lutheran church in Germany my understanding of God was fairly rudimentary as a father of all like figure and just found no reason to question my faith but did not challenge it until after my kids had grown up and rejected faith based on the literature they consumed and the hostility to Christianity around 2010 by the rather outspoken atheists when I was presented with my son being presented with the God delusion.

Unfortunately at the time I had no answers for the questions raised and I would have hoped to have developed a more rational understanding of Christianity earlier to introduce them to Christ in a way that would have made the naivety of the “brights” obvious and helped them to understand their problem with what we refer to as “The Fall”, the rejection of authority over the self by questioning the moral authority of the father and proclaiming their own. Whilst we Christians believe that we will be subject to the judgement of God upon death and depend on Gods grace if we repent, atheists live in denial of that by claiming there to be no God and no judgement, the Opium of the masses - e.g. no regrets. To describe the believe in God as the Opium of the masses would only hold if we all believe that there is no final judgement and there were no strings attached. Thus they demand that prayers are making our wished for reality come true, e.g. God should serve us, instead of prayers are supposed to change us to make Gods wishes for reality come true. Its the classical “my will be done” versus “thy will be done” of puberty. Christians might live in wishful thinking about prayers to work that way but should grow up to learn otherwise :-). I remember when I was a kid praying to God not to let my Hamster die to prove his omnipotence, later my Grandma, and when my mum died I had reached the stage to ask him to help me to be thankful for her life instead and to comfort those around me.

So the God you can see will change with your age and maturity. Jesus described him as a loving father and when you have your own kids you learn to understand what that means. when he said “if you are going to eat from that tree you will die” it is like you telling your child “if you touch that high voltage cable you will die”, a warning of the logical consequence of your actions. It is sad to see how many people think he says “if you eat from that tree I will kill you” - and even worse around Easter that Jesus died to appease God so he could forgive us. It takes the wisdom of an atheist to think that God had to kill himself in his son to please himself because they think of God being a wan***, but be warned, we are made in the image of God, so how we present ourselves shows what God we represent. No wonder some people deny Gods existence :slight_smile:

But coming back to easter and the question of Jesus Substitutionary Atonement

“The substitutionary atonement is a central concept in Christian theology, emphasizing that Jesus Christ died as a substitute for sinners, bearing the punishment that was rightfully theirs. This doctrine is rooted in both Old and New Testament teachings and is foundational to understanding the purpose and efficacy of Christ’s sacrificial death. The idea of substitution is foreshadowed in the Old Testament sacrificial system, particularly the Day of Atonement rituals, which illustrate the principle of an innocent life being offered in place of the guilty. The New Testament explicitly presents Jesus Christ as the fulfilment of the substitutionary atonement foreshadowed in the Old Testament, linking Him to the sacrificial lambs of the Old Covenant.”
How could we have got it that wrong for that long? Atonement, or bringing things closer to one another in that interpretation would mean that the death of Jesu changed God to bring him closer to us as in forgiving us our sins. It is true that he died for us so our sins can be forgiven - but not by changing God from a malevolent God to a benevolent God - but by showing us what it means to give ourself back into the authority of God so we can return to eternal life. If he paid the ransom - consider who holds us at ransom. If your God holds you at ransom your God is the devil. The ransom he paid off was the one the devil held over us by exploring our selfness. And he walked away emptyhanded from it, as Jesus became one with the father again in submitting his life to him.

To commit to this life is hard as it takes faith in the benefit of becoming one with the father again and what that entails. Many of us want to be eternal selfs and we work hard to become those and implement the Fall 2.0 e.g. want to be like god and live forever as ourself. And the more we materialise - or “selfify” - the harder it becomes to let go.

So reflect in holy week on the image of God that Jesus represented and what interpretation he preached - and have a blessed Easter

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I’ve been there so many times . . . !

I just remind myself that Christ died in accordance with the scriptures, that He rose again and was seen by many, and that this is the starting point.

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Yes, Jesus’ entire life is an example of loving obedience to the Father.

It depends on what you mean. If you mean that our personal identities will be dissolved, then not at all. But if you mean that, in order to attain eternal life, we must ask God for the grace to purify us from everything that draws us toward sin and away from Him (that is, from everything that makes us less truly human and less free) then that is certainly true.

For every sin, besides being an offense against God, since it consists in preferring a created good to God Himself, is also a diminishment of our humanity and of our freedom.

It doesn’t. It’s a corrupt philosophy disguised, in this intellectually and spiritually bankrupt age we are living in, as “reality”.

And it’s also very dangerous, as the philosophical naturalists in my view are the most likely (in this day and age) to be the ones Jesus was referring to in Luke 16:31.

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Look, the fact that you want to be a Christian is the most important thing.

The next step is to ask God, persistently, to free you from your doubts and, if you are struggling with any of the commandments, to give you the desire and strength to live by them. Yes, even the very desire to follow His commandments in every area of life is itself a grace that must be asked for, especially when you are struggling and you don’t have that desire (I’m not saying that’s your case),

God Himself asked us to “bother” Him with our prayers, so set aside some time every day for prayer, and remember to ask each day for what you need most, especially the grace of final perseverance. This is of the greatest importance, because God will not permit anyone who constantly prays for that grace to be finally lost.

So be steadfast. There are twenty-four hours in every day; simply give a portion of that time to God, every day.

And remember: even if, at the moment, there are sins you don’t yet want to leave behind, don’t stop praying. It’s especially the sinner who is not yet willing to give up certain sins who must pray for the grace first to desire freedom from them, and then for the grace actually to be set free. It will happen, eventually , so long as you do not deliberately give up with prayer or try to rationalize your sins (that is, convince yourself that they aren’tsins at all: that’s one of the deadliest spiritual traps and must be avoided at all costs).

Simply entrust yourself to our Lord, ask Him to deliver your from your doubts, your sins (and this cannot be stressed enough: even if there are some sins which you don’t actually want to give up at the moment, even in this case, you have to keep on praying for the grace of wanting to be freed from them in the first place, and most importantly for the grace of final perseverance. Don’t think even for a moment that just because you are doubtful or you have sins which you don’t feel like giving up yet, your prayers will not be heard or will have less value or importance), your struggles, everything.

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What I mean is, many things seem “reducible” to physical mechanism when explained by scientifically-minded individuals—our brains, our experiences, our relationships, even religions. I know that the reductionistic materialistic mindset removes many essential layers of reality, and that understanding keeps me from embracing it. Though I still find myself praying and feeling better, only to think “The peace I feel may not be God. It may just be chemicals relaxing my brain because prayer has always helped me calm down.” I can consider my love for my husband and think “Maybe it’s just something instinctual that makes me love him, not something transcendent.” Is there anything outside of “me” that isn’t just a physical mechanism? I find myself considering it more now in this place of unrest likely because it is new, and tend to think new information is “more right” since it was hidden from us. But I hope that makes more sense of my statement.

It’s easy to get stuck in that mentality of God proving Himself by answering our prayers. There have been times that I’ve prayed for something that I felt was too important for God to ignore and not received the subject of my plea. Those times are disheartening. But it’s good to be reminded that God doesn’t always bow to our whims, and that prayer is more about our aligning with Him.

That is something I still struggle with. Many have pointed out how God seemed to be differently perceived by earlier Israelites—more like a “warrior god,” as Peter Enns would say (I think it was Enns?). Did Jesus correct that thinking? He doesn’t seem to view God that way according to the gospels. It just seems odd how the “inspired word of God” would allow for God to be portrayed as that at all.

I’ve tried to reflect this week, and it has been helpful. Thank you for answering me!

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The black and white thinking is hard to shake. It’s very comfortable! I think the fear instilled with that pattern of thinking is, “If I deviate too far, I’ll be in the wrong and guilty of manipulating God into something He’s not.” It’s a strange mix of both religious fear (If God is real, I’m going to get faith wrong) and existential fear (If God isn’t real, nothing matters objectively). I think I’ve saturated my time with so many forum posts and informational media that I don’t really know what MY experience is anymore, let alone if I can trust it.

Changing your perspective is quite the task, especially when you’ve trained your brain one way for 10-15 years. I’m trying to look at the Bible differently, though sometimes it honestly feels depressing.

Thank you! Your response is very thoughtful and compassionate. I appreciate your answer! :slightly_smiling_face:

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I think when I pray that, I want the “unbelief” to just disappear. It doesn’t usually do that. Maybe my expectation is flawed.

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I can’t really think of any sins I am pursuing, unless directing my attention to information too much is a sin (like “idolizing” knowledge?). My upbringing and personality have made many things identified as “sins” not very appealing. But I find your words to be encouraging.

Admittedly, I often think God hears other people and not me because of my doubts and struggle to trust Him. That trust was injured greatly in our church’s split, and it hasn’t fully recovered since. I want to trust Him with my life and believe He will take care of me if I am steadfast in that. But again, the uncertainty makes it difficult.

Thank you for answering me, Massimiliano!

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The difference between the old and new understanding of God can be tough sometimes. Why wouldn’t it all just be consistent? I do subscribe to the idea of God being love and less damning, but I’ve never heard someone say the two were of “two spirits.” Would you be willing to elaborate on your perspective?

Thank you for your answer!

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What may you say to someone who doesn’t see Jesus’ being the fulfillment of scripture, but rather that people molded his story to fit Old Testament passages? This is a question that has stumped me a bit at times.

I’m grateful to know I’m not alone in needing to say those words! Sometimes even just knowing faithful people understand can help lighten the burden of doubt.

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Been there, especially when I was on the debate team in school.

Been there, too – and yes, that expectation fits with the spirit of the age where we want immediate and complete solutions for things.
I’m suffering at the moment from a very effective reminder that immediate and complete solutions are not the usual order of things: sunburn. I can help cells that are going to survive to do so a bit more quickly by the application of aloe vera and vitamin E, and I can help the ones that are doomed to die more promptly by applying alcohol and heat, but there is no “Kazaam – sunburn is gone” remedy. And I have to remember that for most things in life that is the case, which tells me that that is how God normally works, which tells me that “help my unbelief” isn’t likely to be answered immediately and completely – indeed as with sunburn, it may just be that I will keep on suffering until things slowly get better.

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I stopped asking that question after reading most of the OT in Hebrew and in its context.
Instead I remember that in at least five different centuries in church history eminent scholars set out to show that the Resurrection couldn’t have happened, applying the standards of evidence from their own legal systems, and over and over those scholars concluded that there was enough evidence to “convict” Jesus of having risen from the dead, and a significant element in each case was that while sometimes it appeared that people molded the Old Testament to fir Jesus’ life nevertheless there were passages which were already interpreted to fit what is historically known of Jesus well before His birth. So while there is a sort of border zone of “Wait a minute” material there is also a core that points to Christ, and that He triumphed over death.

I’ve gotten to where quite often I can change up a line from Simon and Garfunkel:

Hello doubt, my old friend;
I’ve come to talk with you again . . . .

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As I said, never think that your prayers are any less important or any less heared simply because you struggle with doubt. That isn’t true at all, It’s a spiritual trap, God is always listening, and He will most surely hear your prayers. Always pray for the grace of final perseverance, for it is the greatest of all graces and God will grant it to you if you ask for it, consistently. Remain steadfast in prayer.

This is good. I mentioned it because some people distance themselves from God when there are certain sins they are not yet willing to leave behind. As a result, they begin to think that they cannot even pray to God and ask Him to give them the will to be freed from those sins in the first place. But that, too, is a very insidious spiritual trap, and it has the same origin: the Devil. Even more dangerous is when a person begins to rationalize their sins in order to convince themselves that they were never sins to begin with (and in this day and age it happens very frequently).

I am glad this isn’t your case. I brought it up because, until now, I didn’t know exactly what your struggle was, but as you wrote in your reply, “I often think God hears other people and not me because of my doubts and struggle to trust Him.” Cast those doubts away, they are unfounded. God will most certainly hear you just as much as He hears a holy ascetic on Mount Athos, and He will surely grant you all the graces you need for your salvation, and for the salvation of the people you care about, if you remain consistent in prayer.

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I had a discussion with the brothers of Taizee on the song “Oh Lord hear my Prayer” which they apparently don’t sing any more in their setting for the same reason I pointed out to them. They gave me permission to use my text to the song as long as I point out that it is not theirs but point it out to be a variation based on the original

Oh Lord here’s my prayer

Oh Lord here’s my prayer

when I pray

you listen to me

Oh Lord here’s my prayer

Oh Lord here’s my prayer

Help me to listen to you.

They actually did like it but were reluctant to reissue it as their song as it wasn’t.

God being omnipresent hears all prayers by definition. We just have to learn them to be not about God changing reality according to our wishes but to change us according to his wishes and his reality. We may not wish to hear that - but that is the whole point of “thy will be done” Its not about asking him to stop my loved ones from dying, be it my hamster or my Grandma - as I did as a child - but to asking him to help me to support those who miss them to be thankful for their presence in the past and help them to cope with the loss

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Yes, and that is precisely why why I said that it’s so important for someone who is deeply immersed in sin not to stop praying (the same applies to Christians who are struggling with doubts), but instead to ask God for the grace even to desire conformity to His commandments in the first place. The deadly spiritual trap into which some people fall is this: “Well, I don’t feel ready to renounce that sin right now, so I might as well stop praying altogether”. Often, they also rationalize their favorite sins and convince themselves that those sins are not sins at all. That mindset must be avoided at all costs. Even the grace to desire to live according to God’s commandments is itself a grace that must be asked for, if someone lacks that resolve. And that is precisely because our prayers should be directed toward changing both reality and ourselves in accordance with His will.

You can pray for the healing of someone who is dying, and sometimes people are miraculously healed through God’s grace. But it’s true that the central purpose of prayer is to ask for the grace to become more and more obedient to God. A Christian should strive to imitate Christ, and Christ’s entire earthly life was a complete act of obedience to the Father.

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Revelation 1:4 indicates the Seven Spirits before His Throne. It has been correlated to Isaiah 11:2 to mean, Spirit of the Lord, wisdom, understanding, counsel, might, knowledge, and fear of the Lord.
My interpretation is Seven fundamental Religions of the World that are before His Throne. They are Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hindu, Buddhism, Taoism, and Shinto. This means they are separate Spirits, each Believe ln and Pray to God. This also to me is God’s Sovereignty of This World.

Thank You for reading and asking for my interpretation.

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