The OT is in many ways superior to the NT, for example, on animal welfare
You asserted: âThe purpose of citing it is to show the influence of the Old Testament on moral teachings in the early church, which Andy Stanley denies.â
I asked you for an actual quote that supported your assertion.
Is this all you have? Saying something was not the âgo-to sourceâ is not a denial of influence.
Thank you for making it clear that you had exaggerated and misstated his position.
The âgo toâ was not a series of âthou shalt nots.â It was the new command from Jesus that we love one another.
The first church council (at Jerusalem as recorded in Acts 15) makes it clear the believers of Gentile origin are not under the OT laws.
It is showing live today periodically here:
I will post the on-demand version later in the week when it is available.
Thanks ,Vance. My wife is sick with the crud, so am stuck at home, so good to know!
If you watch the live version today, you will see the music too.
Typically the opening song, before anything else happens, is a secular song that relates to the message. This morning it was a great version of Billy Joelâs âWe didnât start the fire.â
Next showing starts in at 11 am Eastern.
Hope you wife improves!
That song rocked! Literally. Good sermon on unity. I also listened to an earlier sermon on Nehemiah that was a good message. âI am doing a great work and can not come down.â
I needed to hear that to keep on track. Ironically, considering this thread and the comments, it was OT based!
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That was the most clear version of Billy Joelâs song that I had ever heard. I understood almost all the words.
I loved the Nehemiah sermon too. I have heard him preach on that before. It doesnât get old!
The recent sermon on David and Saul was also an excellent OT sermon.
In looking over the lyrics, I wonder how many of the list todayâs younger generation could define. U2 now refers to Bonoâs group rather than a spy plane.
To make it somewhat relevant to the discussion, that is a good example of why we need to be aware of culture in biblical interpretation.
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Really? Andy Stanley said the OT was not going to be the go-to source for any behavior in the church. And I showed with numerous quotes that it was often the go-to source for behavior in the church, both during NT times and later. Do you need more quotes?
Gentile converts arenât required to be circumcised, observed the dietary laws, perform any animal sacrifices, or obey any other ritual law. That is true.That was the decision in Acts 15.
That doesnât mean we donât obey the 10 commandments or many other OT commandments.
Iâve shown already that the OT was often the go-to source for behavior in the church. And not all the commandments were âthou sall nots.â Some were positive, such " Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee."
I see no expiration date.
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Wow, beaglelady, it looks like you are doubling down on your misrepresentation of Andy and adding a false interpretation of Acts 15!
Do you keep the Sabbath, doing no work from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday?
I just finished listening with my family to Pastor Stanleyâs much anticipated âReligion and Politicsâ sermon that he preached today. Thanks for sharing that link with us, Vance!
He did not disappoint. Iâm already looking forward to his parts 2 and 3. You canât come away from it thinking the message is mainly for âthe other guyâ nor that you can feel smug about your own superior political affiliations. I hope his [Christâs prayer] reaches the widest possible audiences and touches all our hearts.
Thanks again, Vance!
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I am looking forward to the next ones too!
Iâm with you on the Ten Commandments. They are an encapsulation of âthe laws of loveâ, the two greatest commandments being even more concise. God still cares about the Sabbath, but just not like 21st century evangelicals typically think:
 The Lordâs Day of Rest
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This is nonsense - Hebrews discusses the Sabbath rest, and the Church has taught why various rituals were replaced because Christ commanded this (eg bread and wine instead of the feat of unleavened bread.) Christ perfected the Law.
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Exactly. And Paul says, " For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed."
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Sunday is the Sabbath day for most Christians. There have always been differences in how it is observed, just as among Jews on their Sabbath, observed from sundown on Friday until sundown the following day.
As for you, do you you require women to cover their heads when they pray, and do you regard divorced people as adulterers?
The problem with ignoring the 10 commandments and turning instead to a new commandment (Love one another), is that it totally ignores our relationship with God. Jesus said that the greatest commandment was to love God, and the second was to love our neighbor. (References available upon request.) I donât understand Stanleyâs âinstead ofâ mentality.
That is a bag of worms. Jesus said so, but it is tough to understand how that translates to Christian life, that is, was that intentional hyperbole, and illustrates an ideal that cannot be attained in our own power, or was it a command to be followed. I have had pastors who would not perform a marriage if either party was divorced, and pastors who feel divorced and remarried people are eligible for being deacons depending on the circumstance. I am happy to not judge and let that be between them and God.
In any case, a good example of how Jesus unhitched the OT from the going interpretation at the time.
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The Sabbath is sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. Since you donât cease all work during that time period, you donât keep the 10 commandments.
And most Christians worship on the first day of week, not because that is the Sabbath. It isnât the Sabbath.
Why do Christians not keep the Sabbath? Because the go-to moral guide for Christians is not the OT.