The Mass Shootings Where Stricter Gun Laws Might Have Made a Difference

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The Mass Shootings Where Stricter Gun Laws Might Have Made a Difference

It’s going to pan out like women’s reproductive rights, on a state by state basis. All this because of British imperial overreach.

I don’t think you should outright ban guns, but I think they should be harder to access (for civilians) and there shouldn’t be so many of them in the US alone. That might reduce gun violence. There is a reason why countries with strict gun laws have less gun violence (and some violence in general) than the US.

Not including the UK because cough knives… cough.

No one person commits mass murder with a knife.
Whatever you think of Klax’s assessment of the situation, there is absolutely no comparison between homicides by knife in GB and homicide by guns in the US.

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True. Here in the States our favorite psalm is PsalM-16

It’s silly to blame “the tyranny of the Second Amendment” alone. It is how it is regulated (and that a gun culture grew for whatever fallacious reasons in the first place).

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I know, I was saying I wasn’t including it on the “doesn’t have a lot of violence” because of knife homicides.

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A more thoughtful look at the “tyranny of the Second Amendment”:

I am a gun owner in Australia. Often my country is pointed to as an exemplar of gun reform, but l really think it’s an example of how there is much more to it than access. We have a saying here, “only in America.”

So yeah, we had a horrible mass shooting in 1996 and the government then brought in new restrictions. Key differences to some US jurisdictions would be, we have to be licensed (including a background check), only licensed dealers can sell or transfer firearms, those firearms are tracked in police registries, and semi-automatic rifles are for the most part banned (exemptions are available for example to farmers and those with disabilities). A genuine reason is needed to have a licence and obtain a firearm, and self-defence is not one of them. But hunting is. (This is why I’m a gun owner.)

How many mass shootings have those laws prevented? “All of them” is the standard answer but of course we cannot know. In reality, I am doubtful. It has probably prevented heat-of-the-moment homicides. But mass shootings tend to be extensively premeditated.

There are hoops to jump through but anyone with a clean record can easily jump through them in a month or two. And no they most likely can’t buy a semi-auto, but, any rifle that is effective for hunting could be misused in that way.

And yet we don’t have a problem with mass shootings here. That to me says there are psychosocial (or indeed spiritual) factors at play in the USA that really ought not to be ignored. By all means tidy up gun regulation but don’t ignore the underlying driver.

Certainly knife crime is a problem here in the UK, there’s no denying that. But mass killings by knife are generally rare and have been restricted to Islamist extremists in the main. And even then we’re talk 2-5 deaths in most cases. I dread to think how much worse these attacks would have been if the terrorists had easy access to guns.

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I myself are in law enforcement, and I own a firearm. Here in South Africa, however, they made strict laws that makes it hard to own a firearm.
One of these legislations I really like and agree to, is that before you may apply for a firearm license, one must complete a firearm training course that teach you about safety, when you may use your firearm and how to use it.
I grew up with firearms, and I am an Angolan war veteran, and I have seen and experienced the most horrendous things human beings had done to each other.
Today, many years later, I still suffer from PTSD.
It is also a fact how South Africa has a very high violent crime rate.
It is hard for a law abiding citizen to obtain a firearm licence, and firearms are so expensive, that the average worker class citizen cannot afford it.
Criminals, however, can easily get hold of a firearm, as those firearms seep into our country from neighbouring states, like Mozambique, Zimbabwe and Botswana.
These criminals get these firearms mostly from Mozambique, and millions of weapons that date from civil war times and were stashed in the bush, caves and other places, are being sold cheap on the black market.
The end result is that law abiding citizens who cannot afford legal firearms, becomes disarmed, while criminals are armed with AK47’s.
It is a viscous cycle that caused a high violent crime rate.
I believe that everyone has the right to protect him/her self, property and those we love. However, I belief that firearms should become cheaper, and more resources should become available for firearm training.
I also belief that stricter laws should be introduced to discourage violent crime, and a better trained police force should help bring criminals to justice.

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As an American citizen, I’d easily support raising the age for semi-automatic rifle ownership to 21. But I’m not so sure, I’d feel safer if legal gun ownership were entirely restricted. The state I live in has a relatively low rate of crime and a high percentage of gun ownership. Home invasions with the residence occupied are virtually non-existent. I assume this is tied to a rational fear criminals have of getting shot by a home owner.

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Perhaps, we have burglaries here in the UK but but no more than anywhere else I’d grant (though I’ve not crunched the numbers). Even so, home invasions when people are at home are super rare. Remember, if no one has easy access to guns there is still a stalemate between occupier and criminal.

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Isn’t texas known for having a lot of guns also?

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This is a pretty good interactive mark is focused on gun desths that allows you to look at them in various layers of filtered info. Such as by state, even by county within a state, if it was suicide or homicide and if homicide was what it was then you can often break that down into the type of gun crime.

For alabama it lists alabama as being in the top four for gun deaths based off of population. But says 51% of those are suicides. Which is quite a bit. Unsurprisingly it mentions mobile county as the one with the most homicides. It’s saturated with gangs and drugs. Dog fighting rings are constantly busted there. There is also a lot of alcoholism. There is a few nice areas but I hardly ever go there anymore unless it’s around the campground areas of the delta. Multiple times hiking there I’ve came across little shacks running off of propane and it will have that weird burned wire smell that I learned is meth being cooked. You go walking outside and in some areas like every 10th house smells like it. When driving you always have to stay back. So many times the car in front slams on the break and you stop right before then and traffic, or a intentional car , gets up behind you and block you in and the guys in front hop out with a gun to rob you. It’s not just the gang infested city parts but sometimes when trying to find public land to hike it will lead you tons dirt road and you’ll drive down that dirt road for 20 minutes and cover 8 miles and it dead ends at the place and there is a trailer park out there and the whole place stinks of drugs. It will be like 50-100 trailers , half of them don’t even have electricity. So I just turn around and leave.

But when you are in areas with almost no gang presence, little hard drug use and leaning more towards middle class instead of poverty the gun violence drops big time.

Another aspect is that no one seems to repot it. The shooter at that school for example had multiple posts about violence and animal abuse. He kept saying things like 10 more days, 8 more days and ect… on his social media and multiple people questioned what was going to happen including someone who specifically mentioned shooting up a school. He had a lot of concerning content. Even his mom, who is presumably a drug addict based off of reports said “ don’t judge my son he has his reasons” which is crazy. I mean sure I understand she’s a mother and it’s her son. She has a whole lifetime of memories and like most tends to focus on the good ones. But her comment was just insane.

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Hopefully those who don’t see themselves able to put up a fight have access to stun guns.

As technology progresses (and the knowledge base increases), rail guns will be easier to produce, much like meth is today.

Evil knows no bounds.

Nope. Brandishing a kitchen knife is the only option most have. But this is the thing I don’t think a lot of Americans understand, in the UK, there really is no situation (ok very, very, very few situations), in which you might need a gun. Even concealed carrying of knives on the street is illegal - whether for self-defence or no.

Edit: If I may be so bold as to say, from my perspective, that some folk in the US cannot imagine what safety would look like without firearms is perhaps part of the problem.

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That is exactly the conditioning that’s happened here. And it’s intentional. The weapons industry here has been laughing all the way to the bank for a long time now - they have the most gullible clientele in the world. People complain about paying taxes since the only things we have to show for those are … you know … roads, infrastructure, schools and other worthless stuff like that. But while the millionaire gun makers/sellers rob nearly everyone blind over here, at least we have something to show for that: the highest mass murder rates in schools and everywhere else too. Some over here claim they don’t like Darwin, but they sure do go for the ‘survival of the fittest’ theme as far as children and schools go. It may be a good thing we don’t have any pro-life political parties over here - otherwise they might get in the way of all this with all their “we should be loving our small children” mamby pamby stuff instead of giving them the bullets and terror to toughen them up.
</End of heavy sarcasm>

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If it were only that simple. I’m not sure how it worked elsewhere, but here in the U.S. one reason the NRA has as much influence as they do, is because they do better in the public debates.

My view towards making the world a better place has to do with exposing the myth of atheism. If people realize there’s a real choice between theism and solipsism, they might think twice before treating another person like they don’t exist.

And I’m more interested in seeing what that does for corrupt public officials, than the odd ball on the street.

Imagine real bipartisan support for issues like term limits and common sense gun legislation.

And to think Mervin, somewhere in π, we are having this conversation :sunglasses:

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