The foundation of our Christian faith is the bible (God's word)

(Laura) #21

Honestly, these kinds of statements are getting really tiring. I and many others here have told you over and over again that we do see Genesis as truth, and that not taking every word as literally as you do is not the same thing as believing that it’s some kind of lie. I don’t know of any Christian here who questions whether God brought the world into being. So why would someone want to continue to engage your arguments when you continue to condescend in ways like this?

(Wookin Panub) #22

If I offenses you, then I am sorry. But I do not see the way way you do. That is just lip service to me. would you rather I lie to you or tell you the truth?

(Laura) #23

It’s not really about how you see it – it’s about how you’re claiming that everyone else here sees it (simply because we don’t agree with your interpretation). You’re saying that we view Genesis a certain way when we do not.

I don’t mean to derail the conversation – feel free to carry on – I just think it’s worthwhile to think about these kinds of accusations, and how they sound when people here read them.

(Wookin Panub) #24

I do not act hostile nor rude in here. I have not accused anyone of being a heretic, anathema etc… I can only say what is in my heart. I have been quite clear that I see you all as brothers and sisters in Christ. But brothers and sisters who are so wrong, and that I will not sugar coat. I am sorry if that offends you. I, myself, would not expect any less from an Arminian who says that we Calvinists are in error as well.


Since there were no Christian scriptures in the early Christian church, it makes me wonder what the foundation of their faith was.

(Wookin Panub) #26

Scripture. Scripture has always been here. (Romans 10:17) “17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.”


The gospels weren’t written until decades after Jesus’ death. Paul’s letters were obviously written well after that same time point. There wasn’t even an agreed upon Christian canon until centuries after Jesus’ death.

(Wookin Panub) #29

(Romans 10:17) “17 So faith comes from HEARING, and hearing through the word of Christ.”


Right. It doesn’t come from reading scriptures written well afterwards.

(Laura) #31

I do think Calvinists are wrong about things sometimes, but thinking a Calvinist is wrong is not the same thing as telling them “This is what happens when you don’t see the Bible as truth.” Does the fact that I disagree with a Calvinist about something in Scripture automatically mean they don’t see the Bible as true? No. In fact most Calvinists I know are quite sincere and no matter how much I may disagree with certain of their interpretations, it would be quite a different matter to claim they do not see the Bible as true just because we come to different conclusions about it.

(Mervin Bitikofer) #32

You should. Because those teaching you about this right now are giving you truth that you badly need, Wookin. And the irony is that they arrived at that truth by paying more attention to scriptures than you apparently have. Jesus is the foundation for our faith, and our Bible helps us see that very truth most explicitly in the pages of the New Testament. It is the pointer to (not the source of) our true salvation, which is Jesus. [John 5:39-40]

You can listen to that truth and learn, or you can continue to confuse and conflate the gospel of Christ with falsehoods of your own devising.

(Wookin Panub) #33

What you just did was moved the goal post. The point is scripture was always here; regardless if t was read or heard. You are the one adding the qualifier.

(Wookin Panub) #34

Hmmm…fancy that. Using scripture to point to Jesus. Sorry my friend, but you can’t prove Christ is who He is without scripture.

(Christy Hemphill) #35

Proof text fail again. ῥήματος Χριστοῦ refers to what Jesus said, not Scripture. Name one instance in the Bible where the word ῥήματος is clearly used to refer to “scripture.” You can’t. It means a spoken word.

(Mervin Bitikofer) #36

Nor can I do it without my eyeballs to read the book. Are my eyeballs now the foundation of my faith? I can’t share or discuss scriptural truth with you now here without computer and internet. Are those now the foundations of our faith?

You need to start actually reading and meditating on the very scriptures that you claim to hold in such high esteem. I actually do read them and believe them, which is why I cannot agree with you.

[correcting edits]

(Wookin Panub) #37

Huh…then what are the people hearing?

(Wookin Panub) #38

How about this then, The foundation for our faith is the apostolic witness to Jesus Christ as our God and Savior?

(Christy Hemphill) #39

Do you know what the word Scripture means? It means writings. It is shorthand for the biblical canon. In the NT it referred to the Jewish sacred writings. Do you think the people were hearing the writings?

(Wookin Panub) #40

Your eye balls do not have the power of God’s word.

(Wookin Panub) #41

So what were the teachers teaching?