Sweden's Example

There are so many unknowns in controversy over the right approach to safety with the coronavirus that we paradoxically see those working in essential industries demanding time at home, and many others who can not work demonstrating to go back …sometimes without masks. One feels for both sides, who have good intent, I believe.

As many know, Sweden has followed a more relaxed approach to Covid, avoiding lockdown. In contrast to Norway, its mortality rate is 10 times higher, and (less comparable give geographical and population distribution), a 3 to 2 ratio to that of the US. Its results may illustrate what countries can expect as they open up. Sweden’s jobs did not suffer as much. I do not think there is an ideal, happy medium, but perhaps we can learn from studying their experience.

Also, I do not know much about Sweden, personally. Can anyone else specifically contribute to the discussion from their knowledge of Sweden? Thanks.

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Two items come to mind:

  1. Sweden is likely closer to herd immunity than are countries that did mandatory shelter-in-place and social distancing. If a vaccine is not found, they will be better positioned than other places. They are “farther along.”
  2. People in Sweden were not forced to go out. They had the option of staying home.

No one knows if those who recover from this will develop immunity. They might but until it is established that even one person can develop immunity there is no point in discussing herd Immunity. I’d prefer my herd not follow the example of the lemmings.

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Nope. Good thought, but that was one of the points. If you read the article, it is very similar to others at 7%. Wish it were true though.

The death rate among the elderly was especially high in another article…which makes it out that sheltering only those at high risk perhaps does not seem to work. The government asked people to avoid nonessential travel, but did not order it be stopped. It also blocked visits to elder care homes from outside, though the staff did not use care or masks unless in case of symptoms.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.euronews.com/amp/2020/05/21/are-care-homes-the-dark-side-of-sweden-s-coronavirus-strategy

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Dr. Birx said immunity is 99.9% probable, but people do like to focus on the remote possibility.

Did you notice that number is from late April?

With respect I suspect the lemmings have similar confidence. :wink:

Interesting. No I had not noticed that. It was compared to others at the same time I would think it would be interesting to compare them now. The death rate was up to today’s date.

Ok, Dr. Birx could certainly be wrong, but I would not put her in the category of lemming.

This is more up to date, with likely 20-30% of Stockholm immune.

Interesting. Thanks for that. It sounds like the article is not favorable to the experiment, however. I wonder what your impression of the cost is, and how you think things can be done better in Sweden and elsewhere.

There are arguments on both sides, and both have very good intention.

Personally, given the mortality, which is much higher than the surrounding countries, I still agree with Fauci, WHO and CDC that shelter in place in the long run will save more lives. However, my relative who protested Whitmer last week points out that at some point we will have to start slowly working again, and maybe we can learn from Sweden both positive and negative aspects. One might be to not only prevent too much access to the elderly and most-at-risk populations, but also to use more PPE when caring for them (this was something that Sweden apparently didn’t do. It’s also contrary to their intent, apparently)

I am becoming more and more concerned about how things will work if we continue this restriction. There was starvation in the US during the Great Depression. Other countries in the Third World have less social support than we did then, and may truly suffer. I read an article in BBC how mortality in those areas may make stay at home appear more of a hardship than the mortality of Covid (God forbid).

There has got to be some safer way of doing this. It may require more PPE, Internet based work to create jobs, etc… I’m not sure. Thanks.

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Whatever else is going on, Sweden does have a good national healthcare system that most are very satisfied with. They also have a generous welfare system.

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Yes, they do. It’s in some ways similar to Norway (though I recall reading a year or so ago that Sweden had a higher jobless rate than Norway–I’d have to get that artilcle to be accurate). It’s more interesting that they are so similar, yet there is such a difference in death rate.
It makes me wonder what would happen in the US. We are not so trusting of our government, nor so socialist. I personally favor a Scandinavian healthcare system over our current one, but have a lot to learn.

Well, the important thing to know is that people of Swedish heritage are particularly wonderful people. :wink:

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Umm…OK…

People. I’m not sure if the assessment applies to Swedish puppets.

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I liked the graphics in this article for comparison between Norway, Finland, and Sweden, but it is a month old now.

What this reinforces to me, however, is that there are people of good intent on both sides. Sweden’s government is very popular with its people, and I think that is for good reason. The others are restricting to protect their weakest citizens, and I think it’s evident that they are not in it for a popularity contest, or to strengthen an authoritarian hold on their citizens.

The real opponent is the virus, not each other. I’m learning a lot on this. Hopefully, we’ll be able to recover as much as possible financially from this devastating recession, and help the least of these economically, too. Finally, hopefully we’ll learn how best to prepare for this sort of thing in the future, so as to decrease the pain it’s caused so many.

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Slowing the infection rate should save lives if it allows time for a vaccine. If there is no vaccine and people just get the disease a few months later, I don’t see lives being saved (as long as hospital resources are not overrun).

The lack of stringent measures in Sweden and the less than 30% rate of infection/recovery may be an indication that some people simply don’t get the disease.

We don’t know that everyone gets it.

To fully compare Sweden to the US for Covid-19, the different racial mix should be considered.

Minorities have been especially hard hit in the US.

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