How can we believe in God and yet cant believe that the"supernatural"exist in our days?How can we believe in a literal ressurection and not literal supernatural events on our days?Why there arent any?Or are there and we just dont know? Some believe they ceased to exist after the apostles.Others beleieve they manifest in a personal way as testimonies.Yet they dont manifest inderectly.Jesus did manifested himself on Pauls way.Why something similar doesnt happen today? Why is that that we are able to speak of events in the past that we believe have happened and not some present ones?
For many, it might not be so much a doubt of what is called “the Supernatural” as it might be a doubt of the accuracy/completeness of understanding of those who partition reality into those two neat, categories of ‘natural’ and ‘supernatural’.
Can you explain further please?
Your question presupposes a situation or context which some (myself included) find questionable: that all phenomena fall into one of two categories: either natural, or supernatural. Either it is the hum-drum, ordinary sort of stuff that need not excite anybody too much. Or else it is the direct activity of a supernatural agent (which most of us here will identify as God).
To question this context is not the same as questioning any/all activity of God. So I maintain that my non-acceptance of the above presupposition is not the same as me doubting what you refer to as the “supernatural”. Instead, it is me doubting the presupposition that provided an important context for the question in the first place.
We can certainly believe that God created the laws of nature for a reason and thus is not so inconsistent as to violate the laws which He Himself created.
We can certainly believe Paul’s explanation in 1 Corinthians 15 that the resurrection is a bodily resurrection to a spiritual body not to a natural/physical body.
Why aren’t there any what?
Miracles? But Christians experience miracles all the time.
Things which violate the laws of nature? Why would God ever violate the laws which He created when there is no good reason for Him to do so.
That would turn the Bible into nothing more than a fairy tale.
I hear stories which sound like that all the time. Example on the forum from Maggie.
If the Bible is not applicable to real life then it is worthless.
The apostles performed miracles.Jesus also did.He also was God incarnate so it seems the natural laws have been violated enough times.
I hear multiple ones as well.But from christians strangely enough,Never from unbelievers.Minding you when Christ appeared to Paul he was still persecuting people
Dont you find it strange that God did miracles and such when he walked the earth and gave the same avility i guess to the apostles?While you and me are here doing any of this or experience any of this. Its like Jesus did these during his ministry here and then he just gave up?
Sure the stories are told by Christians but it includes stories of people who converted to Christianity because of those stories JUST LIKE PAUL DID!!!
Where exactly?You had any conversation with one of them? Because all ive seen close to this is the guys on youtube who make the absurd claim that they "saw Jesus"on their dream and marked them on their forehead.Or they saw some hell vision or something like that.Surely you cant take these seriously
3 seconds to google this…
try it… google “Christian conversion stories with miracles”
Im not looking for the generic “Jesus changed my life from drugs ,porn etcetc”.Anyone can do it without any help.Even if hes not a Christian. WHich by your search the three most popular websites that come up are filled with these
That is not what I saw. I saw many many stories of miraculous healing JUST LIKE PAUL. Violations of the laws of nature? I don’t see that in ANY of the stories of the Bible either.
What ARE you looking for? That is what I cannot figure out!
I never said there was any proof.
The story Paul told isn’t proof either.
His story is just as highly subjective as all the stories are.
Well guess it depends on what you mean by supernatural events.
For example, I believe God still answers prayers. But I also think every time he does, you can also explain it away.
I think that many people though confuse those miracles with the miracles that we read of such as the laying on of hands. I think all miracles related to laying on of hands have ceased because that’s what I believe the Bible teaches. I also believe that revelation has happened. That Satan no longer walks the earth. Again, I believe that not because of science, or experience, but because of scripture.
So I don’t expect to see a man walk into a hospital and begin to walk past people and when it shadow touches then they rise up from the dead, or
When he lays his hands on them they are instantly healed, and I don’t believe in some person walking down the street, and suddenly gets a vision and so he begins to preach about something that 100% happens. I don’t expect to someone with super strength braking chains and speaking with a thousand voices of demonic beings or fallen angels.
I believe scripture teaches without a doubt that all of that has ended. So it has no negative impact on my faith. If I believed they were supposed to be happening, but was not, I would call god a liar.
So the above shows that Nick is certainly right and some people do believe that the Bible is a fairy tale having nothing to do with real life. I knew that already. But like you Nick I think that is just goofy.
This in consideration with
is a conradiction
Seriously. All I see in the Bible are events which are easily explained according to the laws of nature and ones which have been duplicated by others… look them up.
Ever watch the performances of famous magicians? Do you think they violate the laws of nature?
The only contradiction is your own definition of miraculous healing as something which violates the laws of nature, but I do not believe in any such thing – not in the Bible any more than in the stories told on the sites from that google search. I don’t buy into the silly belief in a God who contradicts Himself in breaking the laws of nature He created just to impress ignorant savages who would not possibly know the difference anyway.
You think Jesus as a trickster ?Wow
Explain to me how did he raised Lazarus from the dead.fed the miltitueds,turned water into wine,healed the blind man,healed the leper,healed the paralyzed and all of these WITHOUT BREAKING ANY NATURAL LAW
Nope. Nor a magician either. All those miracles were things which God did – doesn’t mean God broke the laws of nature in order to do them any more than medical doctors, engineers, and magicians do.
The Lazarus story sounds to me like many others of someone waking up after people thought he was dead. As for the others… I told you… look them up yourself.
How did he exaclty all of these then?Did he perfomred a surgery to make the paralyzed walk again?Are you hearing what you say?
After four days whitout any proper medical help or even a machine to kee oxygen flowing and such?Impossible