Yep I just don’t think you are hearing what I am saying. Some people who are paralyzed do walk again.
Wrong. This is also without modern trained medical professionals to pronounce them dead.
How exactly?HOW? Are you serious?And walking up after 4 days in the region of Jerusalem with extreme heat and such ?It is impossible.No matter how hard you want to explain them.Not possible.Are you gonna say that i can turn water into wine now?
Or if i put some mud on my right eye who im missing 10% of vision i can restore it back?Ridiculous claims .I cant believe my eyes right now
For example take these stories.
Jesus shows up sometime after Lazarus died. Jesus then rose him to from the dead. Restored him to life. I believe it 100%.
-
God rose Jesus up from the dead. Jesus was dead for roughly 3 days and he woke up from the dead and two supernatural beings was there and probably rolled a heavy stone out of the way. Several weeks later Jesus ascends being mythological imagery into reality. I believe all of that happened as well.
-
Paul gets in a car crash. Ends up on and island where he’s bitten by some species of very deadly venomous snake that unloaded its venom into his veins. He survives , because it was a promised power to him, and it blows the mind of the local
Islanders to the point they want to worship them as gods. I also 100% believe that story. I think it’s a reality breaking supernatural event in each case.
I still believe the Bible teaches cessationism and that it no longer happens.
Like I said… All you have to do is look these up for yourself. You have my position and I am not wasting any more time with you.
You know these are ridculous claims thats why you arent providing any evidence to justify your possition .THeres not a single one of them that are explainable.If so tell me the condition of one of them.I just want from you to tell me one medical term for one of these conditions that are "healable"by themselves
On the contrary you know that none of the laws of nature were broken in the Bible just as you know there is no evidence to justify your position that they did break the laws of nature. There is not a single one of them which is not explainable. If so tell me the condition of one of them. I just want the testimony of a medical professional about the medical condition of one of these people in the Bible that was healed explaining how it was not healable by themselves.
God gave up? Or we gave up? Even during Jesus time, there were some regions where he did not (or even could not) do miracles due to their lack of faith. So there is something about faith that is tied up into this. As Mitchell has already told you, not everybody (by a long shot) agrees with you that miracles ever stopped happening. Just because many charlatans and absurd claims can be found on the internet doesn’t mean that genuine experiences of healing and of God don’t exist.
2 Likes
Or no one gave up and it it played out how God wanted too. But I would love to meet whoever is resurrecting these dead people and healing cancer with their fingertips instantly. Ive heard many make the claim, I’ve yet to see one do it and it’s not because of doubting god or his power. Same as how I believe God could have created the whole universe in a week. He’s powerful enough to do it. But I still don’t believe he did.
Perhaps I should mention the fact that the laws of nature are highly probabilistic. They are primarily about what is demonstrable (i.e. repeatable) and thus are about the general patterns in the way things behave and not to preclude what are typically attributed to statistical anomaly (things which happen with very low probability). Nor are the laws of nature causally closed. It has been demonstrated that things happen where there is nothing (not even hidden variables) to explain why they happen that particular way. Because of this, saying that God doesn’t violate the laws of nature is not as much of a restriction as you might think. But it does explain why you don’t see God intervening in events constantly every time. Of course miracles are rare by definition. If they happened routinely then they wouldn’t be miracles but the laws of nature.
1 Like
Yeah good job .Still havent answered.How did Jesus walked on water?Were they ice blocks there with these temperatures?Tell me how can a blind man be healed with mud on his eyes?No answer.becasue an answer for these doesnt exist.And you know ■■■■ well it doesnt.You just refuse to believe that your "science god created laws"have been violated not once but multiple times.Just answer me if you know the answer.i havent found anything on the internet
And if anyone claims the same i call upon him to answer.Anyone who makes these claims.You want to make Jesus a "mere"human by explaining these away but theres not explanation.Honestly answer me and ill back up and actually change my opinio.From my threads the fact is that im oppenminded and many times have changed my opinions on various topics becasue the evidence are there
Mitchell also said that the miracles are explainable and rooted to the natural laws.So i guess the same "miracles"happening today are just as explainable.And if thats true then its not a miracle by definition.
an unusual and mysterious event that is thought to have been caused by a god because it does not follow the usual laws of nature:
If anyone here tries to “define” miracles as otherwise to suit his view well then theres no reason talking
Why do you have this need for God’s activity in this world to only include things ‘unexplainable’? I don’t disagree with you that miracles must be (by definition) something amazing or rare or perhaps in response to petition or prayer. But to leap from there to the also unknowable conviction that it must be, even in principle, a departure from all regularity of creation (that is now labeled ‘natural’) and that nobody anywhere or from any time could ever see some explanation for it, seems an unwarranted jump. And even if somebody did later satisfy themselves or others with explanation, why would this signal to you that then it wasn’t God? Forgive me if I’m skeptical of your take on miracles. I don’t see that from scripture anywhere - and am pretty sure you just absorbed this from modern western secular culture.
4 Likes
Some people just don’t want there to be a scientific explanation. For them it would ruin the magic show.
Well i strongly disagree.
For one he’s not talking just about anything. He’s talking about events in the Bible that seems to defy natural laws.
Jesus facing down a man filled with a legion of demons that have super strength. That when cast out, the go inside of pigs and they all drown themselves.
You have Jesus coming back from the dead after 3 days. Not just someone asleep. Unless you believe Jesus never died, or did and never came back.
You also have things such as speaking in tongues. Where someone who has never learned or spoken a language, is suddenly speaking different languages to the degree they can share the gospel.
You have men whose shadows are healing the sick instantly of life long diseases.
You have men who have always been crippled, being told to get up and is able to get up and leap with joy.
You have people telling the future, and it happening.
Those are all things that it seems next to impossible to explain away as just natural events. It seems the only way to make it that flexible, is to essentially deny it.
I’m not denying miracles - only our [your] contemporary need to “understand them” by partitioning them off into a special category of our own definitions. I have no problem saying that I don’t understand how these things “work” - or what resurrection means in terms of interactions of what we call “physical” and “spiritual” (another pair of probably problematic categories). In fact, it is my reticence against pretending along with so many that we must know exactly what all that means - and that we must understand it (meaning: agree with them) in particular ways in order to satisfy doctrinal manifestos and formulas. My rebellion against such dogmatic particularism is to just trust that death is not the last word for you or me or any of us because of what Christ did; and that such risen life will be the final reality in God in every good [and quite real] way it needs to be. That is my prayer and aim: to grow in and toward that trust with the Spirit of Christ as my guide, the biblically informed church community by my side, helping to discern and grow on this journey.
1 Like
I read your response. I’m not entirely sure what it means or how it fits in.
I guess when I first read it, my first thought was this.
You either believe Jesus came back from the dead and his body came back to life or not.
But I also realized your final statement was somewhat tied into some sort of resurrection.
But I do believe that the Bible is pretty clear about life and death. Even when using it metaphorically. The Story is definitely presenting it as, Jesus died. It was dead. Not just in coma or pretending. He was dead. Then brought back to life and he left the tomb. Then a few weeks later he ascended to heaven, to where Gods realm is. I don’t think he just floated around in space or the sky. I do agree we don’t know what happened.
Or rather I guess for me it would be a struggle to develop the idea scripturally that Jesus did not physically rise back to life in a immortal body that’s also a physical body. I guess I just assume he went to another dimension or something and we are waiting for that one to overtake ours completely.
I know I don’t believe that he died, and his body went missing, and some invisible version of his personality floated away or something.
It may be a issue of not being able to see eye to eye because I don’t even know where your eyes are lol.
Still havent answered scienctist guy.Just because your a scientist doesnt mean you are an expert on the medical field.Give me one definiton or name or something for this pr that.TELL ME A STORY WHERE ABLIND MAN GOT HIS VISION BACK FROM MUD ON HIS FACE.Is it so hard to do that?Why?
Are you serious?Got it from western media?You know the definition of miracle.So tell me why arent these happening today and what miracles of the bible are “explainable” to you?Because thats what i get from this.As ive said to mitchell give me one example for these and ill stop right here