Science and the problem of demon-possession

[Terry_Sampson]

@SkovandOfMitaze

Not only are demons not found in the western world, but whatever you used as evidence to come to that conclusion so will show that demonic possession is not found anywhere on earth.

• “I’ve never seen a demon or a demon-possessed person; therefore, there are no such things.”
  • Whatever evidence you used to come to that conclusion will show nothing more than that you have never seen a demon or a demon-possessed person.

@SkovandOfMitaze

There are no speaking in tongues, prophecies, Christians grabbing a corpse by the hand and bringing it back to life or disciples going in cancer hospitals and laying their hands on someone and instantly healing them.

• You’re very skilled in arguing from the ridiculous to prove your arguments, aren’t you? Don’t answer that, it’s a rhetorical question.
• Growing up in a Pentecostal household must have been traumatic for you.

[SkovandOfMitaze (Mi)]

You’re welcome to bring a healer, demon possessed person, resurrectionist, real snake handler , witch or a demon as your evidence.

I’m sure it’s not too hard to track down the friend of a friend who knew a missionary who saw some dude from the 3rd world country who has the evidence? Xd. What YouTube video do you want me to watch?

Also, I was not raised Pentecostal. I went to church like 2-3 and maybe like 30 times during that period until I was an adult. Now I was brought to some very Pentecostal like places, and even as a kid, I could tell, it was just fake. I’ve never seen an American chestnut but I am certain they exist. I’ve never seen Bigfoot but i am fairly certain they don’t exist. If superheroes were real we would all know for sure. Same for supervillains.

[Terry_Sampson]

What? You think I do magic tricks? You’re being silly. I’ve never claimed to be a magician.
I have never, ever claimed to be an exorcist, snake handler, consort of witches, or demon owner, or to have raised anyone from the dead, or to have healed someone by the laying on of my hands. Why would you suggest that I try to prove anything for your entertainment when I have never claimed to be or do any of those things. You’ve been watching too many faith healers. I don’t swallow their B.S. either, and I certainly have never claimed to be one.

@SkovandOfMitaze

Also, I was not raised Pentecostal.

You weren’t? So you developed your stereotypes on the basis of 30+/- visits to Pentecostal gatherings?
I read comic books when I was a kid, too. But I never, for a moment, imagined that they were real.

You’re not the “James Randi” of “Christian Supernatural Phenomena”, are you?

[Dale (evolutionary providentialist)]

@Terry_Sampson

If I am truly an excellent driver…

No, but your analogy is a non sequitur and irrelevant.

[Terry_Sampson]

@Dale

No, but your analogy is a non sequitur and irrelevant.

No more irrelevant than your claim that “truly Christian” Christians have no need to fear being possessed.

[Dale (evolutionary providentialist)]

@Terry_Sampson

Christians have no need to fear being possessed.

That’s a little relevant to the OP. (And there is such a thing as Christian in name only.)

[Terry_Sampson]

@Dale

That’s a little relevant to the OP.

???

@MelekRimaye

can/should a theology without demons be developed?

• So, the proposition that a “truly Christian” Christian has no need to fear being possessed justifies “a theology without demons”?
  Okay, in that case,
  • Jesus was as “truly Christian” as any person could be in this world.
    • Therefore, it was–since His resurrection–never necessary for any New Testament writer to say anything about Satan or demons, and there has never been a reason for anyone to be concerned or afraid.

[MelekRimaye (Reginald O'Donoghue)]

Gonna summon @Jonathan_Burke, since he has some interesting things to say about this subject.

[Dale (evolutionary providentialist)]

@Terry_Sampson

@Dale

OP.

???

“demon-possession”

 

@Dale

Christians do not need to fear being possessed

@Terry_Sampson

Jesus was as “truly Christian” as any person could be in this world.

• Therefore…

…he did not need to fear being possessed.
 

@Terry_Sampson

Therefore, it was–since His resurrection–never necessary for any New Testament writer to say anything about Satan or demons, and there has never been a reason for anyone to be concerned or afraid.

Invalid conclusion and not based on the supposition.

[Terry_Sampson]

@Dale

Invalid conclusion and not based on the supposition.

What do you think the supposition is?

[Dale (evolutionary providentialist)]

Condition may have been a better word choice – If someone is truly Christian, then they do not need to fear (fear anything at all, not just being demon-possessed).

[beaglelady]

@MelekRimaye

Gonna summon @Jonathan_Burke, since he has some interesting things to say about this subject.

Yes, he had some great insights on the 2016 demon possession thread.

[Dale (evolutionary providentialist)]

the 2016 demon possession thread.

Fyi.  

Demon Possession in 2016

How is the intellectual Christian supposed to take Demon Possession? As I see it there are only Three options. The first is to believe that it didn’t happen and the Bible is misunderstanding mental illness and epilepsy . The Second is that the cases in the New Testament were special events that only occurred while Jesus’ power was directly manifested in the World, as a sort of balance between good and evil. Or mental illness really can actually be demon possession. Especially when a voice actual…

[Terry_Sampson]

Time for a trip down Memory Lane:

@MelekRimaye

can/should a theology without demons be developed?

• Would demon-possession without demons even make sense?
  • I think not.
• How about a theology that mentions demons that aren’t or haven’t possessed anybody? Possible or impossible?
  • I say: Possible.
• Well, how about a theology that addresses demons that don’t possess anybody? Possible or impossible?
  • I say: Who cares?
• So, a theology of demon-possession without demons would be silly theology, IMO.
  And a theology of demons who don’t possess anybody would “much ado about nothing”?
• What’s left? Gee, what about a theology that addresses demons for the benefit of those who are not possessed but pastor communities that include family members or friends that are or become possessed? Hmmm, could be useful.

[Dale (evolutionary providentialist)]

What’s left? Demons’ influence, à la The Screwtape Letters?

[Terry_Sampson]

@Dale

What’s left? Demons’ influence , à la The Screwtape Letters ?

For adherents of a theology without demons, would The Screwtape Letters be anything more than pure, idle fiction?

[Dale (evolutionary providentialist)]

Have you read it? They were fine with people not believing in their existence.
 

@Terry_Sampson

For adherents of a theology without demons

They might be wrong and it is a pertinent parable, especially about self-talk (and where it comes from).
 

@Terry_Sampson

For adherents of a theology without demons

@Terry_Sampson

• • I say: Who cares?

[Terry_Sampson]

@Dale

Have you read it?

Yes.

@Dale

They were fine with people not believing in their existence.

I suspect they actually prefer it.

@Dale

They might be wrong

So, you almost appear to be willing to consider the possibility that "a theology “without demons” is not “sane theology”:

[Dale (evolutionary providentialist)]

@Terry_Sampson

So, you almost appear to be willing to consider the possibility that "a theology “without demons” is not “sane theology”

I would not overstate it like that.

[SkovandOfMitaze (Mi)]

I never said you were any of things. I countered your argument of “ never seeing them as to why I don’t believe in it “ with well then surely there is some proof out there of some of it. But there is not.

My stereotype is not about Pentecostals. You’re the one that specified them. It’s about anyone who claims to have seen any of those things. Which is claimed by far me movements than just Pentecostals.