Have you never met anyone suffering from severe psychosis? So bad that they decide to take their own life? You don’t think that is Hell on Earth? My comments have nothing to do with Gnostics, but with the stark reality of modern life. Medicating the mentally ill is not working, it only creates addiction, adding to the Hell on Earth.
BTW, The soul is in the Spirit that Paul discusses. It is the eternal part of us humans.
I condemn this falsehood and ask other participants to join me.
I also condemn it. Many are helped by these drugs. Some people cannot be helped and some refuse their medication, but that’s no excuse for a blanket condemnation.
Yes, sweeping statements like this are uncalled for. Stats or personal experience are one thing (or two things), but not all situations are alike.
(And speaking as a moderator, let’s not wander too far from the topic, please.)
Mental disease is real, Mr Murphy. I grew up in a country where antipsychotics were nonexistent. People with schizophrenia wandered the streets with fear and much morbidity and mortality. Taking appropriate medicines is life changing. When a governor in our state in the US read a book by a lawyer that said we should not treat mental illness, he released the badly ill from necessary care. The number of homeless and abused increased dramatically. I don’t have time to show you all the research, but I hope one day that those poor folks I know back in Africa will someday get the care they need and even become productive members of society. I think you mean well, but invite you to read a good text from a standard medical school or residency psychiatry course; there are also great autobiographies out there. Thanks.
Indeed, one of the major problems with the homeless is the lack of mental health services, and the major problem with appropriate treatment is not addiction, but rather not taking medication.
I’ve mentioned several times that in countries too poor to have mental health services, those suffering from mental illness are diagnosed as demon-possessed and are literally chained up in prayer camps.
It is not such a big step from leaving off from prescribing medicine for diseases of the brain to doing so for those which are for the body. Encouraging those who are suffering to gut it out isn’t responsible.
As with most sweeping statements, there are grains of truth mixed in - the world of medication is not one happy sweeping story of success; not in its beginnings and not now either. But it does have enough large-scale success to set against ongoing problems that I agree that Shawn’s blanket dismissal is wrong.
The general blanket statement is false. There is some over use of medication though. In rural US, it seems quite easy to get a script.
I think the issue is the term “mentally ill”. Mentally ill people are often helped by taking medication. Not all anxiety, obsessions, etc are mental illness though. It seems like many General Practitioners over-medicate. At least that has been my personal experience.
Pls explain.
For a touching (and true) story of mental illness, I recommend the book and film “The Soloist.” It’s about a young black man from a poor background. He was a talented musician, though, and made it into the Juilliard School. Then suddenly he plunged into mental darkness, and landed on the streets. A journalist happened to meet him and reached out in friendship. He shared his story with his readers, and people from all over contributed to his cause. He never was able to trust anybody enough to get on meds or get off the streets, but thanks to the journalist, he was able to form friendships and make connections.
Watch the trailer:
The Soloist
(A professional musician friend explained that mental illness is common in that profession.)
I think that medication has too often be the first option in treating things like anxiety. This is especially true for patients with limited resources. I further think that being rural and White tends to lead to more such drug use. I’ve done a bit of searching but all the articles that I can find have limited access. All I can offer here is anecdotal evidence. For that reason I will retreat from this conversation for the time being.
I was trying to dig around and came up with this short article from 8 years ago:
Thank you for creating a new thread for this subject! I apologize for my words being taken out of context. I used a generalization after speaking of specific people who were on medications that were not working. My intension was not to say we should stop using pharmaceuticals to treat all patients with mental illness, just those where they are not working.
In some cases of depression and schizophrenia, the root cause is spiritual. Using pharmaceuticals will never cure the affliction, but that does not mean that they cannot help with the symptoms. I would just like medical practitioners to take a holistic approach and realize that there are spiritual aliments that present as depression, schizophrenia or attention deficit and should be treated spiritually if medications are not effective. When medications are not working, the patient (or the parents of the patient) should be informed of other methods. Dr. Brian Weiss has specialized in these cases, but he is not the only practitioner successful in treating the spiritual ill (not mentally ill).
Aren’t you speaking of possession? How is it treated?
Yes, Dr. Carl Wickland, Dr. Edith Fiore and Dr. Brian Weiss all have published works on treating ghost possession. This can present as depression or schizophrenia depending how malevolent and how many there are.
To treat this is done on a case-by-case basis. You are dealing with sentient beings and need to uncover the proper motivation get them to stop molesting your patient. Some sort of forgiveness is often needed. Wickland was a strict Catholic and he invoked God and the Saints to cure his patients. But Fiore and Weiss use more holistic methods, often finding deceased friends and family members to assist. But sometimes the possessing spirits are full of rage and looking for revenge. Yes, medication can be very helpful in cases like this to minimize the stress of the patient, but the source of the stress may be incurable.
@Shawn_Murphy - you’ve provided two youtube videos and a link to a PDF book that may or may not have been published/reviewed. The PDF book is very mistaken in drawing conclusions about the invisible spiritual world by noting that visible matter is made up of things that we cannot see. There is a HUGE difference between actually measuring ‘invisible’ atoms and then jumping shortly after to there are ghosts and manipulating them is really important.
Dear Matthew,
Fiore and Weiss have many publications and yes, I sent only the intro video for both. Wickland published on the one book on his work. The same results being achieved by three different practitioners from three different time periods is the evidence that I present, not a peer reviewed paper. Science is more than peer-reviewed papers. It is also about discovering why unexpected results occur. The only feasible method of scientific discovery of cases of ghost possession is through forensic science. As you say, you cannot devise an experiment to measure “invisible” sentient beings. You can only theorize they exist and test that theory with forensic science.
They do? What do their publications say? I see mostly books but there is a rather dangerous phenomenon that Fiore was likely describing of ‘false memories.’ One paper that referenced her work was:
Creating false memories of infancy with hypnotic and non‐hypnotic procedures
An overview of false memories can be read here:
https://psmag.com/social-justice/dangerous-idea-mental-health-93325
The pattern is people have some kind of issue or problem- they go to someone who specializes in ghosts or aliens and then are desperately searching for the root cause of their problem in a hidden ‘memory’- and voila- someone gets a false memory of ghosts or aliens that never occurred. Families have been destroyed over this bogus technique.
“Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” -Colossians 4:6
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