S/O Should mental illness be treated with medication

(Cindy) #23

Take out “schizophrenia” and reword “spiritual” to be a bit more inclusive so that non-Christians and even Atheist can benefit, and maybe; we could find some agreement.

I gained more benefit from talking to my priest than I did five years on klonopin. I did find this study last night: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10900-012-9593-5 It reminded me of my lunch date with my priest when he told me that I was one of his heroes! I was like, Whut??? LOL Just being assured that I did in fact have good reason to be stressed and that like any stressed person; I’m going to feel overwhelmed sometimes. It’s OK to feel lost, as long as you don’t stay lost. :slight_smile: Anyway, my point is; sometimes people just need to be heard and understood. That, unfortunately, cost more resources than cheap drugs do.

Yes, depression is real. Yes, anxiety is real. Yes, sometimes drugs are needed to control these conditions. But, imo; therapy should be tried first. Or even a good talk with a priest.

When people are actually hearing and seeing things that aren’t there though. That needs a doctor with a good knowledge of medications! Unless you are Jesus, you aren’t going to talk that away!

(Cindy) #24

I love that website!

(Cindy) #25

Oh boy, you actually believe this? I guess there actually is no way of coming to any kind of agreement then.

(Randy) #26

Mr Murphy, please clarify what you mean by forensic science. Thanks.


It’s easy to take advantage of impressionable, vulnerable people, especially children.

(Shawn T Murphy) #28

Cindy, all I seek is the broaden the scope of possible treatments offered to patients, not to come to an ‘agreed’ treatment. When it comes to people, statistics are irrelevant for the outlier. My daughter is an outlier and every “standard” medical treatment she has received in her life has not worked for her. By 14 she did not trust what any doctor told her, because until that time, nothing had come true. If there is a 5% risk, that is always her.

There are many possible causes for each ailment or symptom, so agreement is not possible, you need to see the options.

(Shawn T Murphy) #29

This is the only valid tool available to analyze scientifically historical events without the ability to experiment. For example, handwriting analysis and speech recognition are used to determine the identity the person from a written document or spoken statement. These same tools are used to validate the identity of spirit speaking through a medium or using the medium for automatic writing. In the same vane, using patterns in the text to identify the same original thought from different sources. The techniques used in verifying the author of a document or a work of art.

(Mark D.) #30

@beaglelady it isn’t just young children who are easily manipulated in a therapeutic situation. Back when “recovered memories” was much in the news, my wife’s next youngest sister accused their father of sexual impropriety. Our immediate response after shock was concern for helping him work through this as we live nearer to him and he was pretty elderly. We did assume she wouldn’t just make something like that up. But he had no idea what she was referring to and after we asked her for more details she cut us out of her life just as she had her parents. This has been a source of much sadness in our family but there has been no willingness on her part to discuss it. We subsequently found out through the False Memory Syndrome Foundation that we were not alone. It is appalling that psychotherapy is so poorly regulated that practitioners who guide patients to implant such damaging memories are not challenged. It is frightful that someone who is in such dire straits that they need to seek out a therapist are in danger of getting one that is obsessed with such cultish things.

(Cindy) #31

OK, I see where you are coming from and I actually can relate. I will say prayers for your daughter. God is the first person that we should turn to in such circumstances as He does have all the answers.

I am an outlier in many ways as well. I too distrust doctors. When I was diagnosed with stage 0 breast cancer I did not just accept my doctor’s treatment. I went to the web to do research. A certain actress’s book came up and though I was a bit confused as to how she would know anything about cancer; I looked into her claims. That was when I stumbled across the Science Based medicine website. After reading the article there I decided on going ahead with standard treatment in regards to having a lumpectomy and radiation but refusing the tamsulosin she was trying to cram down my throat for five years. Almost four years later and I’m still cancer free; I’m happy with my decision. My point is, there is nothing wrong with questioning the status quo, but for it to be effective; it needs to be done using the tools of Science. I refused the tamsulosin based on the fact that in studies, the difference of re-occurrence of cancer between groups who took it and groups who didn’t was very low. My thought process was that I’d rather risk losing a breast than endure five years of some really nasty side effects of that drug. Once I told the doctor that; she stopped arguing with me.

Look, my life is a poster child for “outlier”; I get it! I could spend all day saying how I don’t run temperatures and don’t even get me started on the weird way my brain works. My husband too has had such issues. When he didn’t improve after chemo treatments for leukemia, we were told that he was depressed. We went to a doctor for that for a few times but couldn’t afford to keep up the treatments. The medicine wasn’t helping so we quit with that too. a few years later, he was diagnosed with Parkinson’s. That leukemia morphed into Parkinson’s, his current doctor believes me. She is the one that suggested that the chemo caused his predisposed Parkinson’s to rear its ugly head sooner. Again, Science, in the end, made sense of things.

No, Science doesn’t get things right all the time. That is why it is always changing, we improve our knowledge by using the tools that we have to discover new things. We don’t reinvent the Scientific Method each time Science fails us. We use it to test another theory. Over and over again.

(Cindy) #32

You sort of have to have some proof that the spirit exists in the first place.

(Shawn T Murphy) #33

That is what I mean by handwriting analysis. When the writing was done by the spirit (automatic writing), the handwriting will be different than the person that was used. In the Bible the spirits spoke in foreign tongues to prove they were there by speaking a language not known by the person.

(Cindy) #34

But you are making the assumption that changed handwriting equals spirit possession and that is not a valid assumption.

My handwriting has changed over the years, so much so that a police officer thought that I was being a smart aleck when I signed a ticket. I then saw how much my signature had changed from when I signed my driver’s license.

You can’t test for “which spirit” until you’ve ascertained that there is in fact a spirit causing the change and not something else. In my case, I think that I had just slowly cut out aspects of my signature because I was signing documents all the time, all day. (I prepare taxes.)

(Shawn T Murphy) #35

Dear Cindy, If you were to take your samples to a forensics lab. you would be surprised at the results. This science has advanced to the point that you cannot hide your personal unconscious ideosynchries. Many doubt the spirits and the science because they are not willing to accept the consequences of the spiritual wold interacting with our daily world. This is the reason for all the witch burnings, they were spirits speaking out against the clerics. Instead of letting them undermine their power over the community, they burned the “witch” instead of following 1 John 4.
Best Wishes, Shawn

(Randy) #36

Mr Murphy, I am afraid that this is strong error. Trying to say there is a demon or spirit that explains natural things prevents us from really finding the problem. It can even cast guilt on someone who is mentally ill. Untold damage and ostracism has occurred when people try to exorcise or appease nonexistent spirits. The answer to the Salem trials was not to welcome nonexistent spirits as though they were real. It is to heal those who suffer from real problems. BBC just posted an article on this. http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20181221-can-an-auto-immune-illness-explain-the-salem-witch-trials

I want to encourage you to avoid fear and sadness. It sounds like you have been strong parents to help your child through great difficulty. I honor you for that.

However, I am concerned about misinterpretations.

Forensics is not this sort of science. It’s the occult. For example, can you name this lab and ask them to be put to scrutiny?


(Shawn T Murphy) #37

Dear Randy,
Thank you for the kind words. I am not afraid, but I think you just came in at the middle of a conversation. We were talking about how to prove that a spirit is speaking through a person. For me, there are plenty of well documented cases of benevolent spirits speaking through people as Jesus had promised (John 14:17 15:26 16:13). My comment about witches was aimed at cases like Joan of Arc who was killed for her well documented voices. These messages from God were contrary to what the church’s power was based on.

There are also well documented cases of deceased souls tormenting people, that were cured through spiritual means. This by no means that all cases are such, but some are. As you say, you have to be careful of charlatans, just like you have to be careful about your choice of psychiatrist.

Best Wishes, Shawn


True. It’s really alarming. And it’s so easy to implant false memories in some people.

(Ronald Myers) #40

Of three people I know/knew with metal illness:
One returned to work with aid of medicine
One now lives a life of safety to him and others because he takes a daily does of a psychoactive medicine
One committed suicide when his medicines did not work and he was released too early.

(system) #41

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