Protection vs. coddling

I don’t envy university administrators and what their jobs have become over the last couple of decades. I just finished reading “Coddling of the American Mind” by Greg Lukianoff and Jonathan Haidt (published 2018), and I have a question or two that their thesis provokes for me.

Their work is summarized by several pithy quotes that they note, one of which is: “Prepare the child for the road, not the road for the child.” Okay - yeah. That seems a pretty sound principle.

In chapter 10 (“The Bureaucracy of Safetyism”) they address the concept of “Harassment and Concept Creep”. My basic takeaway from this chapter (and the rest of the book) is that the bar for what counts as harm to any individual (or group) has been lowered so far that it is more of a request for or empowering of authoritarian censorship than it is needed protection for those who feel threatened. It is now a culture of cultivated vulnerability. To quote from later in that chapter:

In an optimally functioning dignity culture, people are assumed to have dignity and worth regardless of what others think of them, so they are not expected to react too strongly to minor slights. Of course, full dignity was at one time accorded only to adult, white men; the rights revolutions of the twentieth and twenty-first centuries did essential work to expand dignity to all. This is in contrast to the older “honor cultures,” in which men were so obsessed with guarding their reputations that they were expected to react violently to minor insults made against them or those close to them—perhaps with a challenge to a duel. In a dignity culture, however, dueling seems ridiculous. People are expected to have enough self-control to shrug off irritations, slights, and minor conflicts as they pursue their own projects. For larger conflicts or violations of one’s rights, there are reliable legal or administrative remedies, but it would be undignified to call for such help for small matters, which one should be able to resolve on one’s own. Perspective is a key element of a dignity culture; people don’t view disagreements, unintentional slights, or even direct insults as threats to their dignity that must always be met with a response.

For example, one clear sign of a dignity culture is that children learn some version of “Sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never harm me.” That childhood saying is of course not literally true—people feel real pain as a result of words. (If no one felt hurt by words, the saying would never be needed.) But “sticks and stones” is a shield that children in a dignity culture use to dismiss an insult with contemptuous indifference, as if to say, “Go ahead and insult me. You cannot upset me. I really don’t care what you think.”

In 2013, Campbell and Manning began noticing the same changes on campus that Greg had been noticing—the interlocking set of new ideas about microaggressions, trigger warnings, and safe spaces. They noted that the emerging morality of victimhood culture was radically different from dignity culture. They defined a victimhood culture as having three distinct attributes: First, “individuals and groups display high sensitivity to slight”; second, they “have a tendency to handle conflicts through complaints to third parties”; and third, they “seek to cultivate an image of being victims who deserve assistance.”

Of special relevance to our concerns in this chapter is the second attribute. Campbell and Manning pointed out that the presence of administrators or legal authorities who can be persuaded to take one’s side and intervene is a prerequisite for the emergence of victimhood culture. They noted that when administrative remedies are easily available and there is no shame in calling on them, it can lead to a condition known as “moral dependence.” People come to rely on external authorities to resolve their problems, and, over time, “their willingness or ability to use other forms of conflict management may atrophy.”

This is the concern that Kipnis voiced when she said that overprotective policies make students more vulnerable instead of less, and that schools are creating a culture of vulnerability.

I fully acknowledge that such concern (perhaps the whole book) would carry a lot more cultural cache had it been written by people who have actually suffered under historically/presently discriminatory systems, and not two presumably fairly well off white men. But setting aside that culture war objection for the moment and addressing the actual thesis put forward (something that can be rightly and reasonably expected in our society when we’re following our better angels I think) … here is a question I have as a Christian.

Is it not a Christian teaching - from the Sermon on the Mount no less, that hurtful words can and should rightly be seen as violence? The authors make a convincing (to me) case that actual physical violence still needs to be maintained as a separate category from “mere” words. They aren’t saying words (especially threats of harm, and other slanderous speech too) are insignificant and should never warrant consequences. They are claiming that to elevate anything found offensive - even slights, whether intended or unintended - to the same level as actual harm is to foster yet more vulnerability in the very population that rightly needs protection. It turns very authoritarian very quickly and makes enemies out of potential allies. It is (to quote Haidt in another context) to “send your child as a balloon out into a world filled with pins and needles.” It doesn’t end well - for them! And yet Jesus seems to demolish the difference between what the law would recognize as real, physical murder, and murder in our hearts. How would Jesus react to this book’s thesis?

My wrestling with that so far is to think that there are two very distinct levels of interaction being addressed. The book is addressing something at a “policy level” or “best governmental practices” level, whereas Jesus is addressing a spiritual social (personal relationship) level that will have a very different (much higher) bar of expectation than what we can reasonably put onto some administrative bureaucracy. This book is suggesting that we are ceding way too much of our own potential empowerment over to third-party authority, and will/are paying a high social price for doing so in our homes and educational environs. They seem to me to make a reasonable and urgent case. What do others here think?

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It’s very simple, Teachers should do on the Job Training, not some separate Tenure Profession.

I’d say that mentality is part of the problem itself. You are micro-aggressing my white-maleness. Where is the Biologos safety corner so I can go sit in it. Cancel cancel cancel. Seriously though. Devaluing someone’s thoughts purely based on their gender or race is a no-go for me regardless of whether they are white males or black women. I consider that woke babble while recognizing there are very big differences in how different groups and genders approach the world. But to assume someone recognize this going in (or that they can’t recognize this) is absurd.

Otherwise lots of good thoughts to ponder here. One line about education struck me in regards to over-protection. I can tell you I firmly believe students do need room to fail and learn that there are consequences in life. Parents should be absent but hovering doesn’t work either. You hover after they fail for a bit then increase the length of the leash. But administrative bottom lines are more concerned with graduating than educating. The joke we teachers make is “as reading rates go down, graduation rates go up.”

Opinion: sticks and stones is something we need to bring back. Dodgeball too. Well, maybe not dodgeball but I might irrationally die on that hill because of my competitive primate roots. That was always one of the best days of gym.

At any rate, this year I had a student who said “So and so just made fun of me” and this was standard ninth grade kid stuff (no bullying, friend ribbing) and I went with the whole lion sheep line. I said are you a sheep or a lion? Does a lion care about the opinion of sheep? No, they are nothing more than food. Let me hear your lion roar. It set in nicely.

Vinnie

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In terms of public policy things exists on a spectrum like anything else. Threatening harm and overt racism are taken more seriously than other insults. Yes, murdering in one’s heart may be as spiritually bad as physical murder but we don’t punish people for thoughts. Words and thoughts are different from acting out those words and thoughts.

Objecting to coddling kids to unhealthy levels is not the same as saying committing adultery or murder in your heart are not just as bad spiritually. I don’t see this comparison as valid. I can quote Jesus about carrying one cross and facing persecution.

“Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven…” [1, 2]

If someone wants to feel blessed, persecuted or rejoice in a safe space when insulted, I guess have at it :man_shrugging:

As a teacher we need to make school a safe place for all students and an environment conducive to learning. But we also pick our battles when a student says something mean. Sometime it’s a “stop being stupid” or a warning or a call home or a write up. Depending on the nature, the time, the frequency, the recipient etc. We are dealing with frontal lobes still undergoing myelination and synaptic pruning as are colleges are they not?

I think Jesus would say who cares if sticks and stones would break my bones and who cares if people insult me . Blessed am I as a child of God either way. Matthew 10:8 is appropriate. Jesus is not saying either is more right or wrong nor is he giving out any public policies which have to distinguish between thoughts, words and acts, all on individual spectrums. Jesus would be compassionate and merciful but also have high levels of personal accountability. That is how I read the gospels anyways. Public policy should try to find a balance. But as James says, the power of life and death is in the tongue so you may be on to something that words are more important than some might have thought for a generation or more. Maybe the pendulum just swung too far in the other direction. I think as Christian we are accountable for what we say at all times.

Vinnie

That’s key. Or even further yet (per the thesis advanced by the book), allow (no - insist) it to be the student’s battle as much as possible. Let them learn from it. I know I endured (and also was the culprit) for many a painful social occasion growing up. Very few of those were brought to the attention of any ‘higher authority’ nearby. Lots of mean stuff. Lots of learning. I don’t think I’m the worse off now for having endured it (much of it deserved, and some not) - and Lord have mercy - I hope that others on the receiving end of my own juvenile cruelties would be able to say the same now too. I certainly pray and hope so.

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Published 2018 is the key. The mantra at that time was that universities were a bastion of leftists whose authoritarian censorship was taking away free speech from conservative students. But, as always, the accusation proved to be a confession. The authoritarian censorship has come from the right. Look at how many professors have been fired from state universities like Texas A&M, which fired a professor who advocated for trans rights after a student complained to the administration. Right-wing kids are taking cell phone videos in class trying to catch their teachers saying something wrong. Look at how many states have outlawed DEI and disbanded entire programs like women’s studies or African-American studies. How many universities did the Trump Administration sue or threaten to prosecute over their curricula, admission policies or “anti-Semitism” for allowing pro-Palestinian protests?

Evangelicals are the worst about seeing “Christian persecution” under every rug of academia, meanwhile the Texas State Board of Education is requiring Bible passages to be read in class.

Tell me again who has a culture of cultivated vulnerability?

By the way, “victimhood culture” became a byword among conservatives in the wake of the #MeToo movement, which gained steam in 2017.

Legal authorities in the Trump Era have intervened in a way never before seen on behalf of Christians and conservatives. Who really has a problem with victimhood culture? Who really has a problem with “moral dependence”?

This is a caricature. Jesus lived in an “honor culture.” In traditional Mediterranean honor-shame cultures, a man was responsible to advance and defend the family’s honor, earning a name for himself vis-à-vis other men. Typically, this competition took the form of verbal sparring with definite rules. One man issued a challenge, which his potential opponent would accept only if the challenger was thought worthy of respect. (Accepting an inferior’s challenge brought shame, not honor, regardless of the outcome.) Once a challenge was taken up, the response usually was along the same lines as the challenge, and the exchange bounced back and forth until an obvious winner emerged with honor intact, his vanquished opponent diminished in the eyes of the community. Of course, one could reply in a way that raised the stakes of the initial challenge, but this entailed risk. A humiliated foe became an instant enemy, and the result could be physical violence, a feud, or even war, if the contest involved aristocrats.

Jesus operates within the accepted norms of his honor-shame culture. He participates in the verbal sparring common among men, whether challenging others or being challenged. Frequently in his confrontations with authorities, he ups the ante and publicly humiliates them, inviting their immediate and intense enmity.

Note: I should also add that “dignity culture” and “victimhood culture” are categories invented by the authors, not something recognized by sociologists.

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Sorry, I disagree. My prime directive was that every student should feel safe and respected in my classroom. Bullying was never allowed. I would simply walk over to the desk of whoever said something mean and ask, “What did you say?” That was almost always enough.

When I was teaching a “resource” class of SPED kids math and English at the end of my career, I spent almost every off period visiting gen ed classrooms and pulling out kids who were bullying my students. They weren’t capable of defending themselves, either verbally or physically. I read the riot act to the bullies in the hall.

I have no tolerance for bullies. I grew up in the days when teachers turned a blind eye. I was a tall skinny nerd who wore glasses. We moved a lot from 6th grade to high school, and a bully would focus on me at every new school. Luckily, I was a pretty good athlete and my dad taught me to box. Not every kid has those advantages.

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Bullying is also a reinforced and learned behavior. Intervention is not just about coddling the receiving end, but an opportunity to teach boundaries, respect and empathy to the children exhibiting behavior which is ultimately damaging to all.

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All true. I used to tell the boys in juvenile detention, “If God has given you strength, it’s to protect the weak, not to harm them.”

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Bullying in the education system requires repeated behavior to qualify as such and of course the power dynamic between the students plays a role in how we address someone being mean to another student. If a football player makes fun of an autistic kid with emotional problems vs them saying something idiotic to one of their teammates (or their friends) we handle it differently (one is serious conversation in private and the other is the eye look with “be nice” the first time.

Bullying and making fun of sped kids (and poor, fat, whatever) was extremely common when I was in school. I teach in the same highly urban school system (18000 students and 1800 teachers spread over many schools) and instances of other students mistreating special needs students has dropped dramatically from my perspective. Offenses need to be documented and repeat offenses dealt with.

Broad-brush dismissing the original content as evangelical propaganda was also unhelpful in my view. Maybe it is though. To see it as such is not my default because political systems and conspiracy don’t live rent free in my head. That is a miserable world. What I thought the article was getting is what we consider too mean now has expanded beyond the rational to super-sensitive, hyper woke nonsense. And we hand hold the kids for everything.

Remember the classes cancelled and grief centers set up when Trump got elected? If we want truth over something like this, well, it is: “Grow up crybabies” and that response is adequate for members of both parties many times over many different situations. The rest of us just went to work and carried on because we live in the real world and didn’t get breast fed until we were 30.

Vinnie

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None of us has any set of priorities that deviates much from that (or certainly includes both of those things) - especially these days.

Not contesting that. Nor are/were these authors. In fact they reference examples of the right doing these very kinds of things. What they don’t do - is stop there (as you seem to have) and pretend that this is only a problem on the right. They also bring up plenty of examples where the left does all these same sorts of things too. And in fact I would say that a good number of right-leaning acquaintances of mine would even insist that it was from the left that the right first caught onto and first mimicked such cancellation behavior. Don’t get me wrong - I happen to think (probably in solid agreement with you) that the right has taken it to a far more authoritarian and evil extreme than I’ve yet seen from any side in my lifetime. Just watching who they admire and vote into office is all one needs to see to have that side of the aisle revealed for what it really is right now. But instead of getting into the middle of a pissing contest of who started hitting whom first in the backseat of your car, there comes a time when you just pull over and give all your kids the proverbial dressing down. Another summarizing quote from the book is Solzhenitsyn’s line: that “the line between good and evil runs through every human heart.” Another great untruth that needs to be unmasked is that the world can be divided into good people and evil people, and all we need to do is identify with the good guys and set about eradicating the bad guys. It is exactly that falsehood that explains why extreme partisans on both sides (especially - the Republican side, but certainly not limited to them, Jay) are now given to such despotic, anti-biblical, and authoritarian nonsense. But instead of seeing them as evil people, it is essential that we instead see them as messy people who have been taken over by a lot of evil ideas. Evil ideas that are temptations in my mind too, just like theirs. And don’t fall into the further nonsense of thinking “Oh - Merv so now you’re saying that ‘there are good people on both sides!” No. Just: No. That was Trump’s line, and an evil, cowardly, and small-minded response it was and is. Evil is evil. Full-stop. It needs to be fought to our dying breaths. But it is the evil I will (Lord help me) always have the courage to fight against. Not against the humanity that is under its thrall - and sometimes that humanity is me because I too harbor evil thoughts, even while my mind is expert at rationalizing that my own ends are surely good enough to justify the same demonic means that I easily see and condemn in others. To think that way is to honor the devil while one pretends to fight him. When we fight evil with evil, it is always evil that wins. The current side in power is blind to this biblical truth and has turned themselves over to Satan until they learn that both Christ and Paul actually knew what they were talking about. And that applies to the extremists on the other side of the aisle too. And to any of us in our darker moments. Had the line been: “There are bad ideas on both sides,” it would have at least been a little closer to truth, but still the evil and cowardly response it would remain given who was (and still is, for the moment) busy winning that race to the bottom when it was uttered.

You can insist that those are made up categories by these authors. Call them by whatever other names you wish, but these authors aren’t the only ones to notice these realities Jay. Other authors like John McWhorter (whom I very much respect) have noticed, and brought forward evidence of these very sorts of things. I can respect you too, and the experience you bring forward here of working with classrooms full of challenging youth (much more challenge than I’ve ever faced!) and how you handle them. I’m sure they love and need having a safe place to learn. I don’t think these authors would set themselves against what you’ve expressed here, and I’m sorry if I’ve misrepresented them in some way that might make it seem so. But you have yet to convince me that there is as much daylight as you seem to think between what you want for your students and what their proposed social/educational priorities are. They seem to me to make a solid case. Don’t let the evils of present partisanship blind you to it.

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Thanks for mentioning it. I’m now interested in taking a closer look at its contents.

I am reminded of my mother’s sister-in-law, … and her mother, (both long deceased now) who lived through hard times in the 1930s and '40s in Oklahoma. Having been adopted into my Mother’s family, I remember asking her, around 2010 or so, if she was a “believer”, knowing that she was not “a practicing Christian.” She answered gently: “My mother and I knew the Bible promise that says: “..the meek shall inherit the earth.” And we’re still waiting.”

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There ARE students who have always been persecuted in schools. Anyone who is different enough from the student (and teacher)-accepted norm is ripe pickings. I was one. Many of my friends were. I had students who were. And some of my comments when I was teaching would make me cringe today; even if they were well-meant, the delivery or situation in which they were delivered was wrong. Sometimes they were based on my own ignorant assumptions or perspective.

I haven’t read this book and won’t. Since you have, I think it would be worth your time to read something “Woke” by authors who are not part of the dominant group. Or look for “Woke” discussions online. Those can’t really happen here. This group is too homogeneous, and of the dominant groups in our own spheres.

Key to understanding and evaluating the broader situation I think you are describing in the book are the power dynamics. Student social structures as well as the teacher-student relationship are full of power imbalances that powerful students and teachers exploit, even unconsciously. These create all sorts of reasons the persecuted student cannot or will not stand up for themselves, even if they had the tools and capacity to do it.

Telling people to “get over it” is telling those who can’t, or don’t know how, or who are not in a position to stand up for themselves is equivalent to saying “Shut up and stay in the corner where you belong.” It is reinforcing the social structure built on power imbalances.

Students could use some overt, (P-12+) training throughout school to teach them to stand up for themselves - and for each other. How many teachers have this skill? How many parents?
And students need overt character training (P-12+) throughout school. However, when our district instituted a Social Emotional learning curriculum that had been incredibly effective in one very needy school in the district, parents had a cow. INDOCTRINATION!!! WOKE!!! TAKING OVER OUR CHILDREN!!!

For the teacher or the institution, it’s essential to listen to what the students who will tell you about persecution and persecutors, listen to their parents, seek to get to the bottom of what’s going on from the perspective of those who are normally not heard. And then support them. Not just by “dealing with” a particular situation, but by working on the culture of the school and overtly, every day of every school year until the school closes teaching student character and verbal/social self-defense.

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Been there, done that. Well … sort of. McWhorter is a black man. But an established and respected professor… so still part of that power class. I’ve read Robin D’Angelo’s “White Fragility”. Does that qualify as “woke enough”? And the reaction her book got (including from people like McWhorter, significantly enough) … basically the power establishment ‘having a cow’ is a prime example of the very kind of reactionism that the Coddling book describes so well. It looks to me like it strengthens their case rather than weakening it.

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In addition to providing a safe learning environment, we have to also teach kids how to live in a world with power imbalances, mean bosses and peers and superiors who won’t coddle them. I don’t think anyone is saying that we should tell the most powerless individuals “good luck.” This is a caricature. It’s more of a hand up vs a hand out for a lot of students and there is no one size fits all here. But there is a time for both.

As an academic example, high school students that get pushed through and hand-held academically often struggle and flunk out of college. They are jolted by adulthood and how they either do the work or fail and mommy and daddy can’t call the school or even ask about their grades (since they are over 18). This applies to their emotional development as well.

Some students need to be given a fish but it’s our duty to teach most students how to fish and live in the adult world. But even colleges now are actually hand holding a bit. Not because they suddenly care about students or learned something new about student success, but because they have financial concerns, budgets and need to meet certain enrollment numbers. I suspect many college professors face pressure not to fail students even if they deserve it outside elite institutions. I’m not one for lowering standards to meet quotas. Some sped kids get modifications but gen ed students do have to eventually sink or swim. We can train and help them, but giving them a certificate saying they can swim well when they can barely tread water doesn’t adequately prepare them for being tossed in a lake. I’d call that child abuse worthy of a millstone.

Here is a story from my youth in grade school (4th or 5th). We lived in a one of the extremely poor and predominantly black neighborhoods in my town (welfare, run down, my parents hooked on crack). I was only one of a few white kids on the bus and a fatty so I had two things going against me and was picked on a lot. I even lent some of these kids some Nintendo games they never returned (I never knew better, I was raised to be kind and trusting). After a while, the principal somehow figured out I was being picked on and stolen from. As a 9-10 year old kid he told me that I have to stand up for myself or it will never stop. He told me if they threaten me with fighting if I refuse to give them something to accept and say yeah let’s fight after school. He was probably hoping I was calling a bluff but he knew it could occur. I did that. One of the young, poorly raised bullies backed down and another, well, we threw hands after school. I was reluctant to swing much because it wasn’t in my nature to fight in how I was raised and I felt no real danger from my opponent but I didn’t back down and took a few punches, a parent who happened to be nearby broke it up and the kids didn’t really ever bother me again after that.

Kids do need to learn to stand up for themselves. Maybe I’ll do something I generally abhor and note that some people who never grew up in poor, urban environments might not approach the issue in the same way. Sometimes your rep is all you have. It’s not a one size fits all. But I can only imagine the absurdity of this principal sending me to a wellness or grief center.

Even if you can control what happens in school to a degree, you cannot control the bus stop or the neighborhood or sneaky bullying and insults. Getting all the parents involved can help as an alternativr but where do grammar school students get these violent and bullying behaviors from? The problem isn’t just with a branch of the tree… it often goes deep into the roots.

Of course in middle school when I had long lost my naivety or innocence (parents may have upgraded from crack to heroine by that time) , I saw one of those kids who bullied me on a basket ball court and I went up and grabbed him and put him in a choke hold and may have mentioned something about him bullying me in grammar school.

Vinnie

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I haven’t read D’Angelo’s book and can’t comment on it.

I punctuated “Woke” as I did to make a point, that I probably should have been more overt in making. Anything is called “Woke” these days that deals with race and social dynamics in a way that the hearer doesn’t like, and finds too “liberal” (whatever that means).

One book, as you know, can’t do everything and is limited by the author’s perspective and experience. This is an area that I think requires wide reading and listening. Also conversations with people who are not here in this forum. And maybe you already do all this. I can’t tell by what you’ve said and not said about Lukianoff’s and Haidt’s book. If you haven’t, I encourage you to keep going. The list of excellent books is enormous today.

Finally, taking a polemical stance, which is how read your response to me, avoids real discussion and analysis.

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I see a difference between “How to Treat Others” and “How Others Treat Me” as the divide here. How others treat me does not affect my value, while how I treat others shows my value. If I go whining to some authority figure over slights, that shows I think I have little value, that I need the authority to validate me.

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Agreed. And point well taken.

Polemical, I’ll cop to. Discussion and analysis happened in the book. And has continued elsewhere as people react to those things too. Even just here in this forum I think we see some divergence of approach as this thread alone already shows. My own “other experience” (away from here) is not so much from reading but from teaching in a private religious school in Kansas. Not exactly a bastion of ‘wokeism’ I think we can safely say. And Biologos would already be way too “woke” for most of them I suspect. But given that Haidt’s work getting devices out of schools has already born admired fruit in many schools (including mine), it may be one of the few inroads that an author who self-identifies as “politically left”, has made into more politically right environs. I’m thinking of it as a kind of ‘bridge work’ in that regard. But not welcomed by everyone. I hear you.

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More quotes from the same work:

p. 132:

…Americans are now motivated to leave their couches to take part in political action not by love for their party’s candidate but by hatred for the other party’s candidate. Negative partisanship means that American politics is driven less by hope and more by the Untruth of Us Versus Them. “They must be stopped at all costs.”

and related, just a bit later…

“Please tell me something horrible about the other side, I’ll believe anything!” Americans are now easily exploitable, and a large network of profit-driven media sites, political entrepreneurs, and foreign intelligence agencies are taking advantage of this vulnerability.

Anybody not recognize themselves here? And yet there is almost certainly considerable truth in the “they must be stopped” part of that phrase! Just so long as one leaves off the morally fatal “…at all costs.” A possible maxim I would add to their thesis is this: Nothing is ever so bad that we can’t make it even worse. Stupidity and evil teamed up are always up to the challenge.

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