We don’t have any covid conspiracies in my church. We go with the science.
People, don’t let your churches and pastors lie to you. Even if they are sincere. It’s a very serious issue.
Don’t get me wrong. Bit D may well have some benefit and little downside. It is just not a panacea.
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If you think personal liberty trumps (pun intended) everything that Jesus said and did, then your views are profoundly un-Christian. Which they are.
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Oops withdrawn
Well, I certainly don’t think that personal liberty trumps what Jesus said.
I do think your interpretation of the words of Jesus may be off the mark as you tried to apply them to this topic.
I think they were pretty clear, and pretty clearly applicable. Jesus gave up his personal rights and dignity to take the place of a slave. If you want to see an acted-out version of that parable, Jesus gave up his place at the head of the table to take the place of a slave and wash his disciples’ feet. Peter was outraged. I’d be glad to discuss some other passages with you, if you’d like. We could start with how Paul willingly gives up his rights for the sake of the gospel in 1 Cor. 9.
My point is pretty simple. You are making a political value – personal liberty/freedom – take precedence over the clear teaching and example of Jesus and his apostles. If you’re not even willing to bend your political principle an inch for the sake of the most vulnerable, then it seems obvious that your conduct is guided by political and national considerations, not Christ. Search your own heart on the matter.
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Well, Jay, we disagree on this topic, on the interpretation of scripture, and on the extent to which the Savior and the Apostle Paul gave up freedoms.
Of course, Jesus was not a Roman citizen. Paul was, and Paul invoked the rights of that citizenship numerous times — ranging from his requirement that city officials escort him out of jail to his appeal to Caesar.
Peter defied authorities after his faith was solidified by the resurrection.
I appreciate and respect your right to your own interpretation and position on these matters. I encourage you to consider that you might be wrong.
When state governments close churches and open abortion clinics and liquor stores, we do have reason to question their judgment.
The sermon on the mount has some good statements on worry and extending lives.
Would you like to quote the specific passages that are driving your position? I am willing to discuss. I have read the gospels many times and am leading a small group now through the gospel of John.
If I have to hear this one more time… there are of course other reasons, but which of the three places increases the risk of spreading a virus the most?
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Isn’t it strange that the Orange Leader never insisted that libraries are essential?
Some would argue that opening a church creates a risk of death and opening an abortion clinic creates a certainty of death.
All I said was that we have a right to question the government decisions.
I could have asked why big box stores like Target and Walmart are open while mom and pop stores are forced closed?
Which has a greater chance of spreading the virus, a building with hundreds or a building with a dozen?
And that would be ridiculous to compare the two. You can’t cough or sing an abortion into someone who then spreads it to others.
It depends many things like airflow and density of people and possibly easier to regulate and centralize compliance with the best health practices. Like these stores:
But I have no idea really. Many might not have the resources like I said for proper health practices.
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I don’t agree with your view, Matthew.
But I do appreciate your admitting you can’t justify closing Mom and Pop stores while keeping open big box stores.
The governors making those decisions can’t justify them either. They are arbitrary decisions; arbitrary decisions which are driving people into bankruptcy.
So you think you can cough or sing an abortion into someone?
Do they sell health items, food, etc.? In other words, while they sell products that people might want they are not immediately needed for survival. Maybe you know of examples.
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Well, I was hoping for a serious discussion.
Isn’t their financial survival important?
Does it matter that people would like to go to those stores?
I think life is about more than immediate survival needs.
I see. And out of churches, liquor stores and abortion clinics the riskiest place is the church by far when considering the ya know, pandemic. Long exposure, lots of interactions, prolonged singing, etc.
And then again you compared some way people die to this infectious disease that grows exponentially and is contagious which car crashes and abortions don’t do.
No it doesn’t. Not for this time. I really want to see my dad and other family members. I’m going to miss my brother’s wedding that I really want to go to but don’t want it to become ‘the event we had to go to that killed grandma.’
Tell that to the 100,000 that have died of the virus.
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But Paul also gave up his right to be supported for his missionary work, opting instead to work as a tent-maker in whatever spare time he could find. Pretty impressive, when you think how tirelessly he traveled, preached, founded churches, and composed epistles, etc. All the while confronting opposition from believer and non-believer alike, not to mention the beatings, the riots, etc.
Just like Paul, there are lots of people now who want to work and not be a burden on others.
But many have had their businesses closed by the government.
There is quite a bit of comorbidity in that number.
It is good that you have the option of exercising your freedom to stay away from the wedding. Is grandma going?
And people die maybe on average ten years earlier thanks to this virus:
https://wellcomeopenresearch.org/articles/5-75
Yes and the three flights, public transportation, and exposure to lots of people that we would be on to get there. Plus I have small kids that aren’t the best at social distancing and wearing facemasks either in public places or when we finally get there. We are a higher risk than say someone who only needs to drive in their personal car two hours.
Even if grandma stays home, the more people that’s interact with each other, the more dangerous it will be for her. We’ve already been over this with many of New York’s new infections being people that are staying home.
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