The problem is that there is no evidence that would ever change your mind.
I’ll bet those exposed to the pathogens die because owing to the stress their immune system is somewhat declined and they can’t fight off the pathogens.
With declined immunity due to stress they are not going to die of excessive inflammation. That is the point.
Only if transgenic mice are used, which means their DNA is modified, will they have excess inflammation. That’s a manufacture.
Befriend the mice for a while, maybe a few months so they develop a relationship with you like a pet does. Then introduce and uphold ideas that the mice have damage in their body and you may get the cytokine storms. That would be evidence.
So you agree that pathogens kill people?
Where is your evidence?
You have been given many papers with evidence that directly contradicts your claims, and here you are repeating the same nonsense completely unfazed.
I agree that pathogens CAN kill people but only IF their immune system is not working to capacity, if it is declined somewhat and the pathogen gets a foothold and overcomes the person’s system. But people can live with persistent infections too and not die of them.
Don’t they use transgenic mice? They do this in cancer research.
I’ll try to find the paper, I think it is one you gave me.
Based on what evidence???
Where is your evidence???
Pet mice don’t really become friendly, unlike pet rats. It’s not like Cinderella. And how do you introduce medical ideas to mice?
The evidence begins way back in the 1930s with Hans Seyle, who apparently was really guilty of animal cruelty, injecting mice so hard the needle broke in many cases and dropping them on the floor etc., etc.
From Google Images.
Here we read:
Hans Selye (1907–1982): Founder of the stress theory (nih.gov)
"The relationship between stress and disease is now well established, but was not always recognised. "
Indeed not recognized you can be accused of medical misinformation for saying so!
WebMed mentions it in passing.
Your Immune System: Things That Can Weaken It (webmd.com)
Says: “The most chronic stressors were associated with the most global immunosuppression, as they were associated with reliable decreases in almost all functional immune measures examined. Increasing stressor duration, therefore, resulted in a shift from potentially adaptive changes to potentially detrimental changes, initially in cellular immunity and then in immune function more broadly.”
However they seem to be saying the reverse in their conclusion. "Further research is needed to support two other ideas elicited by this quote: the idea that subjective experience such as worry is more likely to result in stress-related immune change than objective experience and the idea that stress-related immune change results in stress-related disease. "
What Happens When Your Immune System Gets Stressed Out? – Health Essentials from Cleveland Clinic
Clinical immunologist Leonard Calabrese says that
" stress decreases the body’s lymphocytes — the white blood cells that help fight off infection. The lower your lymphocyte level, the more at risk you are for viruses, including the common cold and cold sores. "
The APA here:
Stress Weakens the Immune System (apa.org)
" In the early 1980s, psychologist Janice Kiecolt-Glaser, PhD, and immunologist Ronald Glaser, PhD, of the Ohio State University College of Medicine, were intrigued by animal studies that linked stress and infection. From 1982 through 1992, these pioneer researchers studied medical students. Among other things, they found that the students’ immunity went down every year under the simple stress of the three-day exam period. Test takers had fewer natural killer cells, which fight tumors and viral infections. They almost stopped producing immunity-boosting gamma interferon and infection-fighting T-cells responded only weakly to test-tube stimulation. "
But then stress can be whatever you want it to be. So if we are going to call a wound or surgery stress then hey stress can BOOST immunity.
Study explains how stress can boost immune system | News Center | Stanford Medicine
There is plenty of evidence after all big companies have been built and profit hugely from the production of genetically modified mice, i.e., transgenic mice.
Here Taconic Biosciences is one.
Human ACE2 Mice for COVID-19 Research - YouTube
And as you can see they are using their mice in all manner of research from studying the disease of covid 19 to making and testing vaccines. And of course for other diseases such as cancer.
"That century of scientific exploration has led to the development of more than 100,000 strains, including many with genetic mutations designed to reveal the role of one or more genes in human disease. "
Human ACE2 Models for COVID-19 Preclinical Research | Taconic Biosciences
More generally: Genetically Engineered Rodent Models | Humanized Mice | Taconic Biosciences
They boast “More Than 4,500 Genetically Engineered Mice & Rat Models”
I don’t do any of those things and I have mice die in the infection models I participate in.
You made claims about transgenic mice and immune responses. Where is the evidence for those claims?
Mice are so teeny-tiny and delicate. Can you imagine a needle breaking inside a mouse? I can’t.
One thing we forget is that the sympathetic nervous system is our natural stress response that is beneficial to survival. We developed it as an adaptation to our environment. People or animals who are indifferent or unaware of a noxious stimulus die soon. Thanks.
True. And some parasites are able to suppress the stress response so their host will be eaten by the next host in their lifecycle.
I’ve injected thousands of mice over the years and I have yet to see it happen, and I use a very small gauge needle.
The other thing is that lab workers must be careful not to inject themselves.
I would imagine that the viral or pathogen load delivered would also determine whether the mice die or can survive.
Humanized mice are used for infections and testing pathogens, are they not? What are they if they are not transgenic mice? Their DNA is fiddled with. From what I read somewhere, which was hard to believe, is that a mouse’s immune system is 10,000 times better than humans. I don’t buy it. My immune system is way better than theirs IMO. Anyway there are a lot of drugs developed that work with mice and not humans owing to the differences apparently.
Here we go:
A Mouse Model of SARS-CoV-2 Infection and Pathogenesis (cell.com)
What mice do you use? Wild type or transgenic? I’d say transgenic otherwise they probably wouldn’t die.
Yes, that is true if the noxious stimulus got them. But there is also a down side to the natural stress response in modern day living because if the external danger is ongoing, like a boss or co-worker hassling you or threatening your job or a nasty spouse threatening to get heavy, then the stress response can last for days and weeks and even months. If so and the person catches a cold and doesn’t know the secret, then while the boss or co-worker or nasty spouse, one of those noxious stimuli don’t get them, the virus will. The reason being that part of that natural stress response to external danger turns off digestion, reproduction and immunity, to some extent. We can suffer indigestion problems, low sex drive and infectious disease.
considering the subject, do you actually have a clue? What I read so far does not make me think so.
Apparently you believe that people can get rid of pneumonia by selling their shop, which might be a cure for shop owning pneumonia sufferers and you should conduct a clinical trial for that. Good luck with the ethics forms
If you consider the amount of mutations that viruses can undergo in a given timespan you should not be surprised about their ability to jump species - and we have been there before a number of times and we are aware of the risks posed by flying mammals, e.g. BATS to spread viruses, thus our fear of them spreading viral disease. The last two scares of SARS and MERS were already giving us clues so we made sure we have Labs in the place were big bat reservoirs are, to get prepared. Looks like we succeeded to find another one and demonstrate that humans as flying mammals are the perfect way to spread them across the globe
you obviously deny the effect of the virus on humans and think it is only in our imagination because the illuminati tell us so and big pharma needed money. I’d suggest going to South America working as a grave digger with a shovel might help you to fathom reality https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/geographical-distribution-2019-ncov-cases. Surely that is where the propaganda is strongest at the moment - or they have run out of mice to infect.
Perhaps the moderators might move the covid denial to its own echo chamber of a thread
If this is what you understood then I’m sorry but that is wrong.
Try this: How does the immune system work? - InformedHealth.org - NCBI Bookshelf (nih.gov)
It says: “As long as your immune system is running smoothly, you don’t notice that it’s there. But if it stops working properly – because it’s weak or can’t fight particularly aggressive germs – you get ill.”
If your immune system starts working properly again you get well again. Simple.
We have bats in Australia, fruit bats, which live in cavers. some of them fly over my house every day. I haven’t caught any viruses from them, at least not as yet and I have lived in this house for more than 20 years. That is not a denial that a person can catch a virus from a bat, but also form a myriad other sources as well. I’ve handled a bat years ago and it even gave me a peck on the lips. If it gave me a virus then my immune system promptly wiped it out and I never knew about it.
I haven’t denied that a human can be infected. It is not imagination. I have only pointed to what a human, albeit they must be humane, can do to overcome the problem. Nothing more.
Covid is about excessive inflammation, enough to cause serious enough problems and often death. However is it the virus that gets the immune system in over-drive? I don’t think so because I have not as yet seen any scientific evidence that is convincing. So what is the origin of covid? That is the question. What this thread is about.
that might explain it all
were you kissed by bat man or by bat woman?
If every contact with a bat would end up with a viral infection we would long be extinct, but to get an idea about the problem with bats as viral vectors you might want to read the article below.