Michael Jones vs Kent Hovind


(RiderOnTheClouds) #1

I’ve started watching a debate over whether or not theistic evolution is compatible with the Bible between Michael Jones (Inspiring Philosophy) and Kent Hovind. From what I’ve seen, so far, IP is slaughtering Hovind, who simply has no idea what he’s talking about. The word kbs, (subdue) whenever it is used in conjuction with the word 'rs (earth) elsewhere in scripture, always refers to military conquest against the ‘inhabitants’ of the land.


(Laura) #2

I don’t have time to watch the whole thing, but I can appreciate people who are willing and able to have real-time debates like this. I can’t think on my feet like that, which is why I prefer forums. :smiley:

I sympathize with Jones’s opening statement about how he used to align with Kent Hovind’s view, but when he tried using those arguments with others he “got creamed.” I have experienced the same – many “scientific arguments” appear to “work” well in conservative Christian circles, but once you bring them outside the bubble, they get torn down very easily. It can be a good caution to Christians to employ a certain degree of skepticism within our faith communities, and not just believe people because they seem like “our kind of Christian” and are good at public speaking.

One thing I do sympathize with Kent Hovind over, which I’ve said before, is that he wants to believe that anyone can read and understand the Bible as is, without needing to refer to the Hebrew. That’s admirable because we don’t want another “religious elite” telling all the rest of us what to believe. But the Bible was written in an ancient language and requires translation and that means interpretive choices, whether we like it or not.


(Cindy) #3

It is rather sad that the organization that created “Bible Works”, a program that gives the Hebrew, Greek, or Aramaic definition for any word in the Bible apparently did not have enough business to keep producing the program. They went out of business last Summer :frowning:
My Dad is going to look for his disks so maybe I can still get it.


(Laura) #4

That’s too bad – I wonder if a site like Blue Letter Bible would be comparable?

https://www.blueletterbible.org/


(Cindy) #5

That is an awesome website! Thanks so much for posting the link. I will send them some support soon! Very soon. :slight_smile:


(George Brooks) #6

@Seeking_Harmony

Cindy,

There are lots of free tools online that have been around quite a while…

The Blueletter Bible makes it possible to search by topic, by Greek word, by Hebrew word,
by multiple meanings, by Chapter, by Verse… and by various versions of the Bible each original term can be linked to the English terms used by that translation:

I am just now seeing that @Elle has already posted on the Blueletter Bible…

and we have another happy customer who didn’t have to spend a cent.

Thanks @Elle! :smiley:


(George Brooks) #7

It makes you wonder what it would take to actually improve upon the Blue Letter software. There must be a “wish list” somewhere they are still trying to accommodate … I just don’t have the imagination to think of what is still missing !


#8

Another free resource is

https://biblehub.com/

And they have a free app for your phone.


(Christy Hemphill) #9

I have heard Accordance recommended for people who used to use BibleWorks. There is a lite version for free, I believe.

https://www.accordancebible.com/Accordance-4-BibleWorks/


(Cindy) #10

I started watching this last night, I found Kent Hovind to be a bit condescending. I found his claim of the KJV to be Superior surprising as I had never heard that claim before. In the churches that I grew up in it was always the pastor’s knowledge of Hebrew and Greek that was supposed to make their interpretation superior. I guess that is how we, later in this thread, got talking about lexicons! LOL

Anyway, thanks for the link; I am watching it slowly during my short breaks. Michael Jones is getting revenge for all the times he got “creamed” in debate on MySpace! :slight_smile:


(Phil) #11

I forgot where I read it, but someone explained that KJV onlyism is a product of anti-intellecualism and the fundamentalist idea that the Bible can be properly understood by “simple reading” by anyone. If you accept several different interpretations, then conflict immediately arises as that simple reading can then vary and gives rise to different readings, which is not acceptable to that mindset. At least that was what I understood in a nutshell. I suspect Kent Hovind has a similar thought process.


(Randy) #12

I was surprised at how many different variations there are of KJV Onlyism on reading on Wikipedia. Apparently, Peter Ruckman, who died fairly recently in Florida, said that the errors in translation by the King James scholars were Holy Spirit directed and actually were improvements on the original text.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Only_movement


(RiderOnTheClouds) #13

God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it ? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?


(Cindy) #14

I do not understand how anyone can claim that the Bible makes sense with a “simple reading”. I got myself in all kinds of trouble in Sunday School and Bible Class by trying to make sense of a simple reading of the Bible.


(Cindy) #15

That sounds like the double talk I got when I asked about how exactly Judas died.


(Dillon) #16

Wow. I think this is the first time in my life that I’ve ever wholeheartedly agreed with Inspiring Philosophy. Thanks, Kent Hovind. Lol.


#17

A simple reading of the Bible would dictate that we chop off our hands when we develop trigger finger, carpal tunnel syndrome, etc.


(Ronald Myers) #18

Accordance is expensive but has no maintenance fees. There is a way to find the corresponding Hebrew word to one of the NIV products Accordance sells. It may be a good substitute for Bible Works


(Randy) #19

Beaglelady, you have a great understanding of the Bible, but I don’t recall this passage Can you help me? thanks.


(Ronald Myers) #20

I have known people who make special claims fro KJV. Depending on the person, these people either think that such an important translation had to be kept from error by the Holy Spirit or the antique language allows them to interpret the way they want. The prime example is the use of thou to address God. I suspect the theologians/writers who hold this are only ratifying their constituency. Little do they know that the KJV we are familiar with is an updating from 1789 which did not become the KGIIIV.