Kizzmekia Corbett-Helaire & Francis Collins | Live from Faith &

Francis Collins and Kizzmekia Corbett-Helaire share some key moments from behind the scenes of the COVID pandemic and vaccine development.

I might add to keep Dr. Collins in our prayers, as I believe he is having surgery today for prostate surgery, something he shared publically at the conference as well. It was touching for me as I am having the same surgery in the next month or so.

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I will pray for Dr. Collins.

Regarding the podcast, I was stunned about the blatant hero-worship afforded Dr. Collins and Dr. Corbette-Helaire. They worked very hard to get this vaccine delivered in a timely basis. They did their job.

Many millions of us feel differently about the work/product they produced which was forced on Americans with the full resources of U.S. government.

How about presenting an alternative view on a podcast from esteemed scientists who worked just as hard to give Americans the truth about the Covid vaccine? Thank you.

You mean that it was amazingly effective, produced amazingly fast, and saved an amazing number of lives?

When I was a kid and a new vaccine came out it was considered patriotic to get the vaccine, and it was considered the Christian thing to do because the more people who get vaccinated the safer we all are. The same was true of any other measures the medical folks recommended, which this time meant wearing masks – something which just about killed the flu season; we should do it every fall and winter! People who care about others should recognize that even if a mask doesn’t make them much safer, if they have a sore throat or cough or whatever then wearing a mask is helping other people stay healthy.

Interesting study with statistics mentioned during the recording, reflecting the end result of vaccine avoidance:
Estimated preventable COVID-19-associated deaths due to non-vaccination in the United States - PMC.

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We should be able to agree that naturally acquired immunity from the delta variant was sufficient to not be vaccinated when the U.S. government was proposing a mandate via OSHA rules

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I think it true the immunity provided was sufficient , but the morbidity and mortality in acquiring natural immunity was far higher so was not a wise elective course of active.


I recall a figure of 250k in an article about potential impact on future elections since the vast majority of those who died following failure to get vaccinated resided in districts that have right-wing voting patterns. The article on one hand lamented the deaths while on the other waxed optimistic about future elections. Comments under the article surprised me: I had expected a series of harsh politically-motivated comments but it primarily turned into an argument over whether even 250k was statistically significant given how widely across the nation those deaths occurred, with a (much) smaller string of question of potential economic impact.
My contribution was asking how we can get higher participation when the next one hits.

I suppose dying qualifies as becoming immune.

But several studies have shown that naturally acquired immunity is/was not as dependably effective as vaccination with at least one booster.

I’ve had it confirmed by a reliable source there were no such studies for the Delta variant when the OSHA mandate was being introduced

It is normal that during an event, studies follow the event, and recommendations have to be made with the best information at the time. Which proved to be in the best interest of the general population as confirmed by those later studies in this case, though can certainly be argued to have been heavy handed, and was withdrawn for private employers after a couple of months, not because of scientific data, but rather because of political pressure. Admittedly, political factors are real and have to be accounted for, something that pastors and elected officials had a huge struggle with during that difficult period. No doubt the politicians and the church both could have done a better job, but sometimes you have to be content with doing your best at the time and both giving and accepting grace.

What do you think the percentage of herd immunity was at the time of the OSHA mandate?

Neither know and doubt possible to know. But at the time of the rescinding, fortunately the latest peak (Omicron I think) was beginning to decline according to one news story, but still had over 700K new daily infections and about 155000 hospitalized, so still a lot of vulnerable people. I had a nephew who almost died in that wave, and was on supplemental home oxygen for 6 months. He refused vaccination. Of course a a series of one means nothing, but his story was not unique.
In any case, you must have suffered some pain to be so fixated on the subject and I wish you resolution and comfort, but will not continue this line of conversation

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CDC said it was around 80% in a study I found prior to the Delta variant

I had a friend who suffered a heartache and died after geting the vaccination

I didn’t see any new studies when a mandate was being proposed 6 months later post Delta. I assumed herd immunity had to be near the 90% range by then.

Those experiences certainly take their toll on us. I had a couple of friends die in the first big surge, pre-vaccination era, which definitely colored my perception towards the Covid deniers, and I had a previously healthy 45 yo nephew almost go on a vent and need home O2 for 6 months or so in one of the latter surges, who was anti-vax and bought into the ivermectin craze which no doubt affects my viewpoint as well.
Suffice it to say that the whole pandemic created a tremendous amount of human suffering, such that there is plenty of lament to be had. We are fortunate that we can turn it over to God and begin healing.

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I also lost a distant friend who was a covid denier. As an elderly person he was someone who clearly fit into the at risk category and could have survived had he taken the vaccine.

Living in Florida I also took notice of the politics surrounding the use of Remdesivir as a therapeutic.

So yeah… it’s not that simple…

This morning in church we had a unique and unexpected time in our worship where we publicly confessed our sins. It was a corporate statement, yet it was meaningful. And later there was a special sense of God’s presence, for me at least. And others I am sure. The pastor was preaching on the presence of God and I so yearned that God would open blind eyes, “as seeing him who is invisible.”

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Too many variants to keep track of . . . .

I’d never realized just how fast a virus can mutate. I suppose if people had worn masks and gotten vaccinated at a higher rate there would have been fewer, but live hosts are great incubators.