I have no idea what that has to do with my post.
First you try to make it into some arbitrary choice, now you’re talking about bullies?
Who thinks God is two faced?
Anyone who says God is only merciful to some and only just to others.
So the Bible thinks God is two faced.
Well I don’t agree.
I thinks judges are generally not equally merciful to everyone.
Like I said, mercy has a purpose and only for that purpose is it appropriate. You give people a second chance so they can change NOT so they can do it again to somebody else!
So judges have to decide whether they think mercy is appropriate for a particular person and not treat everyone equally.
But the guy who has no intention of changing will jump on any so called “unfair” treatment and he will call the judge two faced. Because he thinks his actions should have no consequences.
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Mor often it is the family of the victim who calls for a harder sentence.
In terms of Scripture, the complaints come from the Pharisees,
Human justice is all about restitution and payment. The whole notion of forgiveness or letting people go without any punishment sticks in the craw.
In the parable of the workers, those who had been out in the fireds all day objected to others getting the same pay. Self righteous people object to the thought that a last second convert coud et the same as them. It is not just “a fair days pay for a fair days work” it is about self sacrifice deserving better. We wre entitled to tips and perks for our good deeds and dedication.
Richard
Now thats an unexpected criticism!
Why single out YEC there?
Justice predates even the fall of man.
God cast Lucifer out of heaven along with a third of the angels before Adam and Eve sinned and justice became a fundamental necessity on this planet.
It has nothing to do with YEC. My belief is that true justice is an act of love (according to the Bible). Christ said, love thy neighbour.
One of your better responses st Roymond…great text.
- Precisely to bait a YEC into saying just what I suspected a YEC would say: Justice has nothing to do with YEC. Thanks for confirming my suspicion,
- For a YEC who believes that justice has nothing to with YEC, my question should have been inevitable.
- So which part of What is Fair and What is Just? | Julian Burnside | TEDxSydney did you like?
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Interesting claim. I assume you interpret this from some verses in the biblical scriptures. Which verses tell this information?
That’s an interesting view of justice, as though it was a sort of patch-on to fix things that got messed up.
But the Passion and forgiveness is the antipathy of Justice!
Richard
The Passion is how forgiveness fits with justice; Paul says all the accusations were wiped out at the Cross – not just the penalties, but the very accusations!
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And you consider that Justice and/ or fair?
You are kidding.
Justice means paying for a crime not whitewashinng it.
Richard
That is one strength and weakness of the doctrine that Jesus died on the cross to pay for our sins.
The strength of the doctrine is that our sins matter. They are not just forgotten, there are consequences and a payment for our sins.
The weakness is that the punishment struck someone else than the criminal. If someone on the other side of the world is arrested and punished because of our crimes, would you call that justice?
The answer to this ‘cross-purpose’ is in the question: where were you when Jesus died on the cross?
If you are ‘in Christ’ (one of the favourite expressions of Paul), you were on the cross and suffered the punishment. If you are just a nominal supporter of Jesus, or a spectator, you have not yet faced justice.
This is perhaps symbolic use of language but fits well to what Paul wrote to the Galatians:
" I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." (Gal. 2:20)
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Yes, humans just have to be a part of the solution. God couldn’t do it without them (sacastic font)
Richard
God decided what the solution to the problem was but humans are part of it - there would be no need for the cross of Jesus if we would not sin. If nothing else, we are the ‘bad guys’ in the story.
I cannot (and do not want to) restrict the scope of salvation - the more people are saved, the better. It would be splendid if all people would be forgiven and saved - even Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot. There is just the ‘but’ that the biblical scriptures do not tell such a story. Justice is included in the story and part of the justice is that the crimes will get punished, one way or the other.
The ritual where the life in the blood covers the crimes is a strange addition but even in it, there is a payment for the crimes. It just demands the life of the sacrificed one instead of the guilty one. If God says that is sufficient, then I just accept that.
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This questions sounds to me akin to asking, "“How does the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum physics contribute to world justice”?
Asking about Young Earth Creationism and justice… you have a question that, all its biblical and theological implications and foundations aside, is a question of a perspective about the actual truth of science and world history… if you’re talking about YEC specifically over other Christian understanding of origins.
But that said, any world-view that perceives the creation of the world, as special, purposed creations of God would (or should) treat his creation with special care and wonder and respect. And if said world view recognizes humans as special image-bearers of God, then they would (or should) recognize the special need to treat God’s people with genuine justice and honor.
Conversely, any world-view that views humanity as an accidental byproduct of blind natural forces - a more complicated arrangement of molecules but categorically no different than an amoeba or pond scum - and which has no place for humans as image-bearers of God and hence no place for any real objective morality, by definition cannot believe in “justice” in any real sense.
Yes, that should be the case. Some do act accordingly but there are unfortunately many who do not remember who gave everything for us. Fundamentally, we are just transient tenants on the property of God.
Creation is just one point in the long line of history, from the beginning of the world and life to the future end of the world as we know it. Many of those who believe in creation ‘as is written in the Genesis’ interpret also Revelation 21:1 literarily: the current ‘heaven and earth’ will disappear and God will create a new ‘heaven and earth’ that does not have any sea. For some reason, this is used as an excuse to not take care of the current earth and its’ inhabitants. Caring for the sea life may seem even more futile if you believe that all seas are doomed to destruction in the near future. And the strangers and immigrants - well, we should love our closest neighbours and relatives more than those far away (or who should have stayed far away).
Even if someone thinks there will come the day when everything on earth and in the seas will burn, we have a moral responsibility in front of God to do good, to take care of what has been given to our responsibility. Future destruction is no excuse to forget our responsibilities and justice. Yet, many continue their greedy and selfish life even if they believe in the Creator. Drill, baby. drill - or cut, baby, cut - take what can be taken before everything burns. Love yourself and your family, others are the problem of God.
Do I believe that everything burns one day? Probably, although it may not happen soon. Unless we figure out how to save this planet, everything will burn, at least after the sun expands. That might still take a looong time. Short or long, we have our responsibilities.
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I think you completely misunderstood me… are you thinking I was remotely suggesting that promoting World justice is limited to being a young earth creationist?
Terry what’s with the relentless interrogation of Daniel?! I think we know that he isn’t against Justice! Indeed what faith tradition would ever make such a wholesale claim?! [And I’m pretty sure he’s explicitly told us he isn’t YEC either, so why the 3rd degree of trying to make him answer for them as if he is?]
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