And vaccines for children still protect the most vulnerable.
“The problem with vaccine mandates is that they are immunologically ignorant by ignoring the powerful effect of natural immunity,” Dr. Marty Makary, a Johns Hopkins surgeon and professor, told The Epoch Times. “Natural immunity has been formally studied in over 200 studies and has been found to be more effective than vaccinated immunity.”
So why should my 5-, 6-, and 7-year-old granddaughters who have had Covid get a shot?
Is it a fact that 5-year-olds should be vaccinated? No one wants to answer that question.
Notably not an immunologist, and notably the questionable Epoch Times.
What was that then?
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Ah, raising the bar. Now only “immunologists” are able to comment — just as only biologists can define the term “woman.”
Simple question: should all 5-year-olds get the Covid vaccine, even those that recently had Covid?
I doubt you will answer!
Do you know more on the topic than Dr. Marty Makary, a Johns Hopkins surgeon and professor?
I know that specialists know their fields and are not qualified to make sweeping pronouncements in others’.
Even children who have recently had COVID.
Unfortunately, while he’s a very able oncologic surgeon, he has no more expertise to speak on vaccines than a surgeon. His writings elsewhere demonstrate, unfortunately, less insight into vaccines in general than many… It would be similar to asking me to cut out a tumor, or perhaps more appropriately as an example, a hydraulics and construction engineer to critique a genetic engineer. Sometimes, we docs just have a dose of Dunning Kruger too much. There is a thread on him elsewhere. Discovering my Family are Conspiracy Theorists - Open Forum - The BioLogos Forum
Vance, I know you are very intelligent. I know you are also empathetic I am sure that you are concerned about your grandkids, as well as others. I appreciate sincerely your discussion and questions.
.I will give you the best recommendations I can. I invite you to apply that great ability to read orthodox scientists who are trained in their area. CDC. has a great page you can start here, and find the links to the original studies in MMWR.
COVID-19 Vaccines for Children and Teens | CDC
I honestly am not smart enough to oppose the many, many scientists in their field at CDC. I don’t want to. I’m grateful for their guidance. They are often paid less than counterparts elsewhere.
That’s the problem with medicine–it’s frankly overwhelming. No blame to people who get mixed up in following the wrong thing–I know many in our field who do, too. You can teach me a lot. I’m always overwhelmed with what I don’t know.
You know the old joke–a primary care provider learns less and less about more and more, till they know nothing about everything; and a specialist learns more and more about less and less, till they know everything about nothing. It’s a good illustration, and great for humility. Somehow, I thought I’d k now a lot more than I actually do, when I started out med school about 25 years ago.
Good night. I’m back to work.
Randy
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Randy, thank you for your post,
I asked you a question, and instead of answering you chose to respond to something that I was discussing with Dale.
Here was my question to you:
If you are too busy to answer, that is fine, Just say so.
He gave a good answer and I welcome it. It is certainly understandable why you do not!
Thanks. I am sorry I was not clear. The link at the bottom was my response. Yes, we are recommended to do the shot. The link provides the answers. You can follow them to the MMWR reports on data, too, from that page, I understand. If you can’t find them, let me know.
Have a good night.
With respect,
Randy
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And I am sorry you cannot answer my question directly without pointing to a link.
I am happy that I do not do such misdirection.
It was a simple question and deserves a direct answer from you, not one that must be culled from a website.
If we are all going to be exposed to it, then vaccinating children to insure they don’t expose others
doesn’t work, does it, Randy? You wrote that we will all get Covid or be exposed to it. Then how is that fact eliminated by vaccinations of 5-year-olds?
You have a good question, and there are detailed responses of reasoning why “yes” is the answer here. I do not know all of them; this is such a good question, that it took hundreds, if not thousands, of experts in their field more than a year to formulate answers.
I will have about 5 hours of sleep tonight, if I’m lucky, but if you want to know their deep reasoning, I encourage you to read the answers to your very good question.
Vance, I really do respect you. If I sound unkind, please let me know. I don’t mean to be. I do appreciate your concern.
Respectfully,
Randy
Thanks.
Get some rest.
Maybe someone not so burdened with time constraints and work can give a clear answer to my question.
You don’t sound unkind, you sound unwilling to answer. That is okay, but I don’t view it as honorable.
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Thanks for the wishes. You, too!
I think you saw my “yes” in more than one post above, but you are asking for the reasons.
We have already discussed how it does prevent actual infection ( though less than before) as well as severity, and based on infectivity and number of antigens is safer by far than any disease. There have been other points above by other posters, which were very good.
Are you asking for the epidemiologic, immunologic, or other data behind these answers?
I can’t go any further at this time. I just have too much work.
To illustrate the complexity, the reasons for immunizing in adults after an infection are detailed, and are in the Science Brief.. There are 96 references in the bibliography.
Adding that on to the pediatric ones… I can’t do it, with my messages and work. I would try, but I can’t. Maybe I can get you more on the weekend. These reasons above are satisfactory to me. I also do trust the experts. I am not sure I could grasp all their reasoning without training I don’t have, either…Dr Schaffner could do a lot more than I.
I am sorry. Have a good night.
Stay comfortable down South. I very much enjoyed working in Tennessee and western Virginia for a year. That is as close as I spent significant time to Andy Stanley, though. It was in the Clinch Mountain and Roan Mountain areas near northeastern Tennessee. I even met some of Dolly Parton’s family ( they said there were more than 300 of them, though)! I attended a middle sized Christian and Missionary Alliance church
Randy
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The vast body of evidence says there is no rational reason for thinking any vaccine will have long-term effects. How the immune system responds to vaccines is well-understood. There is evidence that suggests COVID infections may induce long-term effects that are not well-understood. Vaccinated children reduces the number of children who become infected and become vectors for the virus, continuing its exponential spread in the population.
Not all vaccinated people who are exposed get COVID. It is a providing protection from infection for a certain percent of the population. My kids and I have been vaccinated and boosted. They have since been in close contact for extended periods of time with people who have tested positive on three separate occasions and none of the three have been infected. My husband came home from a trip to Europe with COVID symptoms, tested negative, slept all night coughing next to me and then tested positive in the morning. I did not get COVID. It is wrong to think that vaccines don’t do anything. They work for preventing infection a percentage of the time and they work for lessening severity of infection in the percentage that still gets infected.
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My wife has a PTA (physical therapy aide) with a little girl (maybe 2nd grade) whose dad is an antivaxxer. She is unvaccinated and has had COVID twice and now is sick again, although I do not know about this third time whether it is COVID or not, but I think probably. The mom is vaccinated and boosted and wears an N95 mask and a shield when she is around patients, and my wife and I both wear N95s as well when she is here.
Thanks to all for the interesting discussion.
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This article merely picks and chooses the apparent evidence in favor of Covid vaccine safety, and pays scant lip service to risks (a mere string of words that does not amount to substance). I have long appreciated Biologos but/therefore I must call out the error here that is directly antithetical to its mission. My respect and admiration for Dr Collins took a devastating hit in observing how he has advocated for the institutional narrative that is beset with half truths and opacity.
If you are claiming ignorance, then the least harm you can do is to stop advocating for what you don’t know. If you stand for consilience between science and faith, render to them the diligence they each deserve, especially when it affects your own children and grandchildren.
Since this is a forum on science, you should exercise the freedom to rigorously test the veracity of your statements and change your mind on evidence to the contrary.
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Ah yes. I see the problem now. You trust, the Epoch Times and read Life Site News as if it is a reliable source of information. You are getting your information filtered through their far-right and misleading bias.
This is not a good argument here. Because I can easily say, does Dr. Marty Makary know more than the ACIP, whose job it is to study vaccine safety and efficacy and provide recommendations? He definitely does not, I’m sorry and appealing to his authority, as a surgeon and professor is meaningless here.
ACIP determined that the benefits of COVID-19 vaccination outweigh the known and potential risks, even in the setting of high seroprevalence among young children; by April 2022, in a national sample of children aged 6 months–4 years, 71% had infection-induced SARS-CoV-2 antibodies ( 9 ). Past infection with SARS-CoV-2 provides some protection against reinfection, but the immune response to infection can vary, especially by disease severity, and might not provide broad protection against all SARS-CoV-2 variants ( 30 ). The Omicron-wave surges of pediatric COVID-19 hospitalizations occurred even in the setting of high seroprevalence, suggesting this alone is not sufficient to provide broad population-level protection. Vaccination in previously infected persons enhances protection against reinfection ( 30 – 32 ) and COVID-19–associated hospitalization, including infections and hospitalizations due to the Omicron variant ( 32 , 33 ).
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I’m not sure what you mean by this post. But it is interesting that you think Dr. Collins just follows the “institutional narrative.” Maybe you should listen to him and there’s a reason this “narrative” is what it is.
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No, you are wrong. I read a wide variety of things, and I apply some reasonable skepticism to all of them. I don’t recall reading anything on Life Site News other than that one article.
It would be a better approach for many people if they looked at a variety of sources.
I encourage you not to make such rash judgments on such limited information.