Is Satan a chaos creature?

Doesn’t everyone? Unless you want to pretend sainthood. If I’m wrong and they were right(which they weren’t) then let me be the one at the stake. If not they get what they deserve.

Isn’t that justice?

Not torture necessarily. Just not in my resting place on paradise. Or generally near me in the after life.

I also do believe some transgressions here won’t be forgiven. For me the “all sins will be forgiven” it’s either a made up thing from the writers or a typo error in the Bible.

In no human and logical ,cognitive and generally Universal thought or mind does someone forgive everything. Not even the creator. It’s not logical and contrary to morality. Which its so strange right? For me something may be amoral but to some others not. It’s so stupid.
Anyway enough with my thoughts

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It is solidly among the teachings of Christ and the apostles that judgment will happen - I don’t believe you need worry about that!

I don’t rule that out (and don’t find scriptural grounding to do so), any more than I try to adjudicate who is in or out. That’s in God’s hands, where it is best left. All I know is that if I persist in wishing evil on others who (in my eyes) well-deserve such affliction, then I too have joined in the very same evil that I pretend to despise, and I have turned away from God while I do so.

With so many interpretations and philosophies out there trust me ,I do.

You have a point. But if what they did was justified for the evil you wish I think God would understand. You can’t hate the sin and not the sinner. That’s a stupid concept. But I do get your thought

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Lucky me, no.

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@riversea, Merv has shared some quotes from George MacDonald with you. I did some digging around and found a German blogger who has translated his sermons into German. I think you may find her blog site helpful.

The Sermons were published in 3 sections, which the blogger has collected into 3 groups of blog posts. You can also open each of the sermons separately, if you want.

You can find all the sermons here:

They are in reverse chapter order. So chapter 12, 11, 10, 9, etc.

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

@Mervin_Bitikofer shared sections with you from the sermons

“Truth” (Die Wahrheit); That one is here: Übersetzung – Nicht gehaltene Predigten III von George MacDonald – Kapitel 4 – Die Wahrheit | beatricegriguhn

And from “Justice” (Gerechtigkeit); That one is here: Übersetzung – Nicht gehaltene Predigten III von George MacDonald – Kapitel 7 – Gerechtigkeit [Justitia] | beatricegriguhn

@Mervin_Bitikofer, when you share quotes with Riversea, it will probably help her find the sermon she needs to reference, if you give her the title of the sermon in English as well as the section that it came from.

She will be able to handle translating the title into German

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@NickolaosPappas , while I have 6 tabs open with links to George MacDonald’s sermons, I recommend “Justice” for a view of universal salvation that is not what is commonly thought of, and might just raise the hair on the back of your neck. You can find it here: George MacDonald: Unspoken Sermons Third Series - Christian Classics Ethereal Library .

You might want to take a look at Merv’s thread here: MacDonald (selections from Lewis) - #25 by Mervin_Bitikofer . Start at this post on “Divine Burning” which you may find more than satisfies your desire for all to get what they have coming to them. Merv also included the link to the entire sermon, if you feel the need for more.

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I would agree that a lot of the problems in the world can be attributed to human sin without also including the devil and the devil can become just a way to avoid responsibility. Nonetheless, I think there are some problems in the world that are beyond human control that clearly appear to be the result of an imperfect, fallen world. The most obvious example would be natural evils like disease or natural disasters. Another would be that death and suffering are interwoven into the evolution of life itself (i.e., the struggle for existence). This is not to say that the devil is the direct cause of these things or that they are entirely bad, but a non-human source to evil and suffering in the world I think prevents us from simply blaming humans for their suffering. Also, I know that some evolutionary creationists have used the idea that Satan rebelled against God shortly after the initial formation of the universe to explain why death and suffering existed before Adam. Since the rebellion happened at the beginning, the effects of sin ended up impacting creation from the very beginning. I am not saying I totally agree with this view, but it is true that the Bible does not say when Satan rebelled and he was clearly already opposed to God by the time Adam came on the scene. Just a thought.

Nick, I hope you are well. Thanks for your good thoughts. I wonder if it would help to look at things this way. Life is short, and we are far from perfect. Do you think there is any sin that is great enough that someone should suffer for it for eternity?
It’s starting to snow intermittently here (cold rain right now), so I hope you are warmer than we are.
Thanks.

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  • ? Natural Disasters “appear to be the result of an imperfect, fallen world”?
  • I watched Netflix 4-part series, “Earthstorm”, covering: Tornado, Volcano, Earthquake, and Hurricane. As destructive and disastrous as each of those four are, I am hard-pressed to imagine our planet without the forces that lead up to them.
  • Has anyone written a book or presented a study of what earth might be like without any of the forces that lead up each of those disasters?
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That is why I said that I do not think they are entirely bad. Volcanoes, earthquakes, hurricanes, etc., are clearly an important part of planetary processes today and Earth would not be habitable without them. On the other hand, since they can be a source of death and suffering I wonder if part of the renewal of creation will be the arrival of a time when the case is different, when we can have habitable planets without death and suffering. I am not saying this is my view. I am just speculating. In the case of planetary processes, for example, we may one day be able to control planetary processes to make volcanism and earthquakes less destructive. I do not think that we are anywhere near being wise enough or technologically advanced enough to do this, but control of planetary and even stellar and cosmic processes by a future technologically advanced and wise civilization is one way that physical suffering and death might be mitigated or even eliminated entirely, though to eliminate death and suffering entirely would also require sin to be eliminated entirely.

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Personally, I’m hoping for a non-standard human body. Instead, something that doesn’t require technology to move around in. But who knows? I sure don’t.

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My feeling of being condemned came not from a particular sin, but from my perpetual propensity to sin.

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website
(Love is the law of our constitution, without which we can render justice no more than a human being can walk a straight line in the dark. The eye is not simple and the body is not full of light)

My response:
There’s the word light., I still think Lucifer let light flow then blocked it, and that’s when Lucifer’s name changed.

Love is for Lucifer too., however both Lucifer and Jesus is the morning star. I still don’t understand star?

I seen white light in people radiate outward.

I don’t understand the word law.,

I still wonder how much is religion due to court system from Kings and rulers? Because it seems very similar to courts of kingdoms?

It’s as if religion and kingdoms are the same, and people interpret this as spirituality, the same way as people used the word sleep death.

And I know the spirit soul doesn’t sleep when leaving body, the spirit soul is awake.

Spirit soul doesn’t sleep.

One needs a physical body to sleep. One needs a physical brain to sleep and what happens is the spinal flued will enter the physicals brain that causes sleep - none of that happens when the spirit soul leaves the physical body.

So how is law love govern after spirit soul leaves physical body, spirit soul is awake and alive? Spirit soul can’t physically die? Spirit soul can block light or allow light. That I can relate with.

Website:
(For we are responsible for the evil within ourselves and must kill it; for the good in our neighbor and must cultivate it. Only he can, in the name and in the power of God, kill the bad in himself; we can cultivate the good in him by being good to him over all the evil fog that comes between our love and his good)

my response:
I still think through relationship and learning in the midst of. So in the midst of my thinking and emotions I allow light teach me., it’s not how can I be perfect in ranks of evil good., for I am nothing with no identity., but I’m only middle,

Light is spiritual food, when allowing light feed us we’re fed., it’s not base on evil good., an evil person can allow light - this is going to be the most strangest writing ever.

First of all no one is evil in the sense of just do evil., as we’re responders, we react., so when someone does harm, there’s a lot that happens that led a person to do harm., at any time when this person does harm allows light feed, this person can go to light and feed from light, this person as did harm, might be confused, why can feed on light look at what all I did., this person might block light due to feeling not deserving to feed on light, but it is light who’s our identity and not what we do

light is healing and will take it all and use it all for our deeper understanding

I think what my question was for universal salvation christians is I was wondering is it a journey, and not a before after

before after sounds like not knowing light at all then Jesus causes an after.,

I think more in a journey.,

the pain for people could be, how dare this person who did harm able to drink from light, oh how unfair that is

but anyone can drink from light just as they are, and light heals and teaches, where then a person will understand and grow, understanding why doing harm, what is going on?

No one just does harm, also if we walk the shoes of that person it could be us then doing that harm

just the situations will cause us to be the one to do harm., maybe not the exact thing, but we’ll do something

how is it that a person is protected from never do harm if that person walks in those shoes?

See unconditional love is different then law love, I still don’t understand law love it still seems to be like those court kingdom, rule by kings rulers, that then govern for people to have as spirituality., and this craft gets more power as generations passes it down to the next generations

The reason why I share this here, is because the real me is spirit soul and not religion

as I look into religion I’m reminded kings rulers court systems

I really did see white light in people radiate outward. Light isn’t limit by what humans did. Light lives in all of us already., however many block light. Even I at times block light. So did lucifer block light.

I love music.

I learn English through music.

I allow light teach me. light feeds spirit heart burn fire

  • The meaning of the Shankara mantra is:
    I praise you Lord Shiva, the destroyer of all doubts, who is pure compassion and joy.
    You are the Highest, the Lord of the whole universe.
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Psalm 82 is a neat picture of a heavenly court which frames Jesus’ ascension to become the King of Kings:

God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:

“How long will you judge unjustly
and show partiality to the wicked? Selah

Give justice to the weak and the fatherless;
maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute.
Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.”

They have neither knowledge nor understanding,
they walk about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.

I said, “You are gods,
sons of the Most High, all of you;
nevertheless, like men you shall die,
and fall like any prince.”
Arise, O God, judge the earth;
for you shall inherit all the nations!

Hard to believe that but I digress

That doesn’t justify the things we do.

Depends the damage. If it’s damage to oneself no. If it’s damage to others then if the damage is ireversable or the can’t be fixed(not only physical one,but mostly pshychological) .

A person’s psyche once damaged it cannot turn back easily unfortunately.

So yeah those who do this need to suffer for eternity?How? Strip them from everything. Love from God , socialazation with others etc etc. Let them suffer in loneliness. Let them take the damage they did to others.

Those sins are what I call “irreversible” especially if someone don’t ask for forgiveness from the other person. They are doomed. I’m as well unfortunately. Straight into hell. I’ve done this in the past and I’m not proud . Never found the person to ask for forgiveness though.

My brain and logic cannot comprehend a God who forgives everything sorry. It’s not just and it’s not logical.

All these fall under the presumption of free will of course.

I’m willing to hear counterarguments to mine. Although I find it hard to counter it

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My theology is different from everyone. Every Christian author assumes forgiveness from God for all sins. I don’t accept that.

You can’t go to the court and just say “oops sorry” and the judge will let you go no.
Some things are irreversible. Especially when talking about sin.

The verse about all sins forgiven is either a typo mistake or a though from the authors. I can’t believe Jesus said such thing period.

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Hello, @riversea ,
I encourage you to direct your reply to @Mervin_Bitikofer , with whom you were discussing these things, and who recommended MacDonald’s sermons.
I was acting as a librarian by providing links to German translations of the sermons for you. Beyond that I am not a part of this discussion.
Kendel