Restitution, compensation is needed for everyone. That can only be truly obtained in the sublime, in transcendence. The resurrection. In full, therapeutic at-one-ment. I will never make the mistakes of my youth and later ignorance again; I’ve learned from the most expensive teacher of all, experience. Others haven’t been so lucky. Especially my victims. And no we’re not talking serial killer.
And given by Christ, if you will only accept it.
Richard
As long as it’s given to everyone in the resurrection, who wouldn’t?
And, of course, if God is, as in Christ, then why wouldn’t it be?
Because you ( or anyone else) doesn’t believe it either in principle or in practice. (and therefore still needs some sort of forgiveness)
Richard
Why do such need forgiveness? What for? I find it all but impossible to believe yet still do. It’s not a sin either way and my personal morality has improved with enlightened self interest; less arbitrary clutter, ignorance and fear.
To forgive themselves. To be free of guilt. To be able to live without dwelling on past mistakes or calamities. You might try it. Living each new day afresh. Remembering the lessons but not carrying any sort of remorse or stigma for them. What happened, happened. Move on. There is so much more to come without living in the past. (Which applies as much to rosey sentimentality as it does to remorse)
Richard
Shame doesn’t let go that easily Richard. One has to be constantly cognitive with it and that’s exhausting and just not possible. It requires headspace. Even to internally call out naked before God with it. He understands. He’ll fix it. When I’m dead.
I’m sadly amused at your naive presumption.
Not presumption. I take God at His word (from Scripture) Shame has no place if the action has been forgotten (Forgiven). Either it existed or it has been removed. Once removed it has no further hold over you. The Christian faith claims total forgiveness. That is the faith I proclaim. And I have been doing so for over 45 years one way or another which hardly seems naïve.
Richard
Whatever you say Richard. You obviously have all the answers. Just not for me or anyone I know.
Don’t I wish!
I am just giving the standard Christian doctrine. Take it or leave it.
Richard
That’s the problem Richard. Standard Christian doctrine. What’s that got to do with reality? With psychological reality?
As far as I am concerned, everything
Richard
So vague as to be meaningless Richard.
I am sorry but you will have to explain that. My faith is anything but meaningless, or vague for that matter.
Richard
It’s not your faith I question for a moment Richard. It’s your statement that Standard Christian doctrine has everything to do with reality. With suffering therefore. Can you join up the dots please?
Yes, that old chestnut. Why suffer?
The simplistic answer is:
To be free to live you must be free to die.
Once you start “interfering” ; saving one, killing another, you not only cause the butterfly effect you remove the freedom of life. Chance must exist. If you happen to be standing on a volcano when it blows? A virus or a bacteria are as much life forms as a humanoid or an ape. One man chooses to kill… for what ever reason… any attempt by God to control would remove the basic freedom we believe he gave us.
It is a bit more complicated than that. Like all things there are exceptions and clarifications and all sorts of other factors like prayer or even Specific destinies that may exist (voluntarily or not). I wish I could actually give you a straight stock answer but I can’t.
Our basic belief is that God supplies strength and encouragement to endure and overcome rather than the more pragmatic kill or cure. It is unsatisfactory to the unfaithful and faithful alike.
Richard
That old chestnut. Freedom.
God cannot populate the transcendent directly. Can . Not
What price freedom?
I am sorry. If you want some sort of trite response I can probably supply it. If you want answers to your underlying questions and problems it would take more than a few lines in a forum. I am not being denigrating or insulting, just realistic. I don’t really know how serious you are but you are welcome to PM if you think there is something we can discuss with less publicity. We are in danger of falling into an exchange of platitudes and posturing.
Best wishes
Richard
I know you’re not Richard. I’m 1000% serious. What is ‘freedom’? How does it justify mindless, meaningless suffering? We must learn lessons? Uh huh. If God could do better, He would. He can’t. Can . Not . And not for any meaningless moral or ‘philosophical’ concern. He has no choice. Create fully autonomous creation in the hypostasis of material existence, from eternity or nothing.
Material existence is mere conception which cannot occur in the transcendent, that Jesus came to reveal and got caught up in our Bronze Age tropes incidentally.
Let’s try another tack. I would like you to consider the dynamics of the so called “Utopia New World”. No danger and no suffering, peace and harmony…
= lethargy.
Nothing to get the adrenaline going. Nothing to strive for. No thrills. Can’t hurt yourself. No goals or things to achieve. Nothing to conquer or overcome. No sense of achievement or even pride. No reason to exist at all. You can make no difference to anything (Eccl 3 becomes real). Is that the life you crave? Boredom?
What is freedom? It is real life. Where you do not know what is coming and there is still some excitement in the unknown. Where what you do can make a difference. Where you get satisfaction from achievement and disappointment from failure. Where you stub your toe and say “ouch!” That is freedom and it is not something to be taken lightly or dismissed as fallacy
Yes it can hurt. But it can also reward and give unsurmountable joy. Ying / yang? You cannot have the ups without the downs. remove suffering you remove too much, you sacrifice everything for want of what? Pain is actually necessary. A woman needs pain to give birth, it is not a curse from God but a necessary evil. You cannot fight what you cannot feel. If you do not suffer you do not overcome.
Please, give it some thought.
Richard