Which part of God’s creation would you exclude? Perhaps you do have not read Jonah 4: 11?
It applied to one city, does it not apply Universally?
I am glad that you are not God.
Richard
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Yes I am 100% certain that it includes me. The Bible puts great effort into showing Gods desires for us. We can choose to live Jesus by obeying him, or reject Jesus by not obeying him. Obedience is faith and faith is not merely belief but belief proven by actions. If I believe the homeless man needs something to eat and get I don’t give him food even if I have some to spare then it means my belief is worthless. James 2.
John 14:15
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
Ephesians 4:5-6
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
I feel like maybe the confusion is that you don’t have a issue with their being a higher power and that the high power has reached out to humanity but you take issue that the higher power is the God of the Bible who says his word is true.
Or if I’m getting the wrong impression the easiest thing may be for you to say what is it that you disagree with. You believe everyone is saved? Regardless if they believe in God or not? If that’s what you believe then we can search the scriptures and see if that’s found in the Bible or not.
I don’t think it’s in vain to quote what a God preaches. I do think it’s in vain to assume we know more about God than what he said about himself to us.
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Not so that you can condemn the rest of mankind. Or is that your definition of good work?
I quoted Jonah to another on this forum who thinks like you. You should read it again. You are Jonah. The rest of the world are Ninevah. It is a shame that I cannot find you a whale.
Richard
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…the book of Joshua. Or the Pauline epistles. Or the Gospels. Or Revelation. God is not a masochist.
Quoting what God says about condemnation is not evil. Paul called some false teachers and many other things. A byproduct of defending the truth is calling some things false and deceitful.
What I can’t say, and what I don’t think about, is saying a Muslim woman is going to the lake of fire because she refused to obey and believe the truth. What I can do is point out why Islam is false and not part of the truth. Generally speaking I can say people who place their faith in the prophet Muhammad are not saved and are in danger of Gods wrath if they don’t repent.
The Bible does say to judge righteously.
I definitely agree that this is not about God forgiving us but about what we need. But I don’t think it is just about forgiving ourselves but primarily about restoring our relationship with God by confronting some wrong-headed thinking such as blaming God when our lives don’t go so well.
I would say rather that we misunderstand the notion of perfection as never making a mistake. Jesus was quite clear that perfection is required but it was never about making no mistakes. We should be ready willing and able to learn from our mistakes, and the notion of perfection was that superficial changes on the surface would never cut it. Heaven requires us to change who we are – how we think and what we desire. BUT that God would help with such changes.
Isaiha chapter 1 makes it pretty clear that the religious stuff doesn’t interest God at all. All of it is meaningless unless it helps us to be better people.
I think it was more about them being legal sharks and twisting the law into a tool of power and even enabling them to do evil with it. This is the problem with legalism in general. God isn’t after a people who are good lawyers (or good theologians… or good parishioners) but seeks those who are good people – who have the law of God written on their hearts, as it were.
On the contrary, religion should be for us. Jesus said, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.” But it should be for everyone’s benefit and not just to give some people an advantage over other people.
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Yes that was what Jonah thought. He was wrong…
Christ said don’t do it at all. Perhaps He was wrong?
Just tell me this.(and I am addressing Dale as well here) If a Muslim follows his faith and behaves in a manner that God would approve of, how is that false teaching?
You do understand that Christ came for the fallen? That is, those who have lost their way and are acting against how God would wish them to? (that is what He said)
Or perhaps you ae only interested in the legalism of Scripture! (Like the Pharisees)
Richard
You answered by taking my post apart. I wonder, did you understand the whole of it?
Because your conclusion is the same as mine.
It is not about what we believe, but how those beliefs are manifested in our lives. So why are people judging (Righteously or not) where those actions derive from?
Richard
Let’s look at what the Bible teaches about judgement in the New Testament. Jesus talked about it. He also had his Apostles talk about it and they were inspired by the same spirit. The epistles were answers to questions and reports from individual congregations. These congregations heard the same words that Jesus taught and Paul, a man who was well educated and immersed In scripture and chosen by Jesus himself on the road to Damascus responded through his wisdom of the scriptures and by guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 7:1-5
7 “Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2 For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.
- It starts off with Jesus saying ,” Do not judge others”. Yet immediately following that statement Jesus supplements it with more reasoning. It’s not a contradiction but shows that Jesus is not mean to just be quoted from a single verse because that can be pulled out of context. The context is Jesus is referring to hypocrisy. He’s saying don’t be a hypocrite in your judgement but examine your own heart and remove your specks and then talk with your brother about his wrong actions. So Jesus is not saying don’t judge but don’t judge as a hypocrite. Just like the Pharisees.
Galatians 6:1-2
Bear One Another’s Burdens
6 Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted. 2 Bear one another’s burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ.
*Here Jesus talks about looking at someone in sin and helping to restore them. That means pointing out what they are doing is a sin. It’s not your judgement on the matter but Gods judgement on it. As shown by the next verse.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
- All of these requires looking at something and saying it’s wrong. Making a judgement based on scripture.
1 Corinthians 6:5
5 I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not among you one wise man who will be able to decide between his brethren,
James 3:17
17 But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy.
Hebrews 4:12
12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
- We see judgement being brought up repeatedly here and how to do it. The reason why we have the word is to teach and know the truth. That means recognizing lies and evil. That means making judgement calls based on Gods wisdom.
John 7:24
24 Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”
We are to judge with a righteous judgement t.
The rest I’ll answer later after eating.
Perhaps you need to consider why you feel it necessary to judge at all? You can justify anything you like with Scripture. And as for hypocrisy…
“let he who has no sin…”
Richard
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And it is a shame that people judge at all. I use to be in that opinion that I could “righteously” judge but I saw that it was an ego issue I had and had to let it go and see that God and God alone can judge and we mere mortals are in no position to judge anyone at all. and yes, it is easy to cherry pick Scripture when you can find some verses that suite your case.
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You judge sin because you love them. You don’t want them to continue down a path of destruction. It’s not about pretending to be perfect. Scripture is clear. I showed the verses.
I am a Christian. I follow God. I follow a Jesus Christ. I trust in his word. That’s the position I’m coming from. That’s the source I use to defend morality.
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It is a way of making sure I weigh and consider every part of what you have written. It shows that I am not ignoring any part of it.
Yes we are very much in agreement. You should have been notified that the “like” on your post is from me.
Discussions are pretty much about going in the other direction from what we believe to how we explain and reason it out. The benefits of this process of rationalization is bring our beliefs into a connected whole and enabling us to come to conclusions on related issues.
I have had criticisms in love and they are anything but.
I am sorry but I am with Quinn here. To set yourself as judge means that you consider yourself superior, maybe not on a level with God but in that realm.
But you did not react positively to the one quotation of His that puts your position in question.
Besides, the judgments I have seen here have mostly been about other religions or faith systems, including my own position.
It would seem that people think that they can judge against anyone who does not believe as they do. Which speaks for itself really.
Richard
I did.
You said Jesus said don’t quote. I showed what all he said, and how it systematically fits into the entire story and doctrines further fleshed out by the apostles.
Jesus did not just say ,” don’t judge lest you be judged”. He said a lot about judgement and when it’s all fit together it shows the entire picture.
You’re pointing at the stem of a apple and saying the apple is brown, thin, and woody. In saying there is more to the apple than just the stem.
No, you answered yours I said
“let he who is without sin…”
Which you may nit recognise as a comment on judgement but it most certainly is. According t the Law the crowd was right, yet no one could be found righteous enough to carry out the judgement. And this is what I am driving at. What right do you have to judge anyone at all? Unless you are without sin.
Richard
So was the apostles perfect when they called people out on their sin and judged them? There is a great book that may help you. It answers all these questions you’re asking in depth. It’s called the Bible.
Don’t be cheeky or facetious.
Richard
What else should I say?
Your entire argument is grounded in something not expressed in the Bible.
I came here to converse with people about how religion ( specifically Christianity ) and science converges on the truth.
I’m not a universalist work righteousness pantheistic faith based person. It’s not in the Bible.
So God arbitrarily forgives murderers and other wicked people that keep their ways?
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