Is Jesus the God of the Old Testament?

The decalogue does not mention itself what Deuternomy 6, 7, 10, 11, 13, 19, 23, 30 say about loving the Lord. "But be very careful to keep the commandment and the law that Moses the servant of the Lord gave you: to love the Lord your God, to walk in obedience to him, to keep his commands, to hold fast to him and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul. Joshua 22:5” is a good example of this. The covenant is referred to as a covenant of love. The old testament referred to the command to love, as well as the covenant of love many times in Deuteronomy, which is why the leaders who asked Jesus about the greatest commandment, knew that this was it. Kings and Chronicles refer to the covenant of love, and even Leviticus refers to loving the foreigner in your midst. The difference between the old testament and the new is not as great as it appears. The difference is significant in prophecies fulfilled, in salvation being accomplished, in God’s law written on our hearts, in the humanity of Jesus.

While we may debate that keeping the sabbath on the first day of the week or the last day, or whether Sunday should really be the last day of the week, nevertheless, a sabbath is being kept for those who honor it, and the sabbath is being kept to honor God, and to honor the resurrection from the dead. (the day Jesus arose). Ignoring the sabbath and ignoring the other commandments, such as not to worship idols (money or success or sports or…), dishonoring parents and authority, committing adultery and fornication, playing fast and loose with the truth (lying), killing the helpless unborn and the aged under the guise of human rights… under the excuse that God’s laws are old and out of date, or because “we are free from the law”. As God’s children, saved by Christ, and given the holy spirit, we are now free to obey God, to obey God’s laws and desires, not in the legalism of sacrifices and circumcision, but in the passion of love for neighbor which is demonstrated in the decalogue, and in the way that Jesus explained the decalogue.

@johnZ and @Relates, I refuse to let this turn into a political argument (argue about politics somewhere else—BioLogos is not the place for that). Move the discussion back to the subject at hand, or I will close the topic permanently.

Good point Brad, and I agree with it.

Well said Eddie. Jesus confirmed the commandments in Matthew 19, as well as in other places. Freedom from the law means freedom from the condemnation of the law which shows us our sin. Instead of being slaves to sin, we are now free to be slaves to Christ. If our concept of freedom means that we want to be free from the commandments of God so we can impose our own will, then we really need to question our own committment to following Christ. The flip side is that if we think we can earn our way to heaven/God’s approval by merely keeping the commandments, then Jesus has another word for us… that the thoughts of our heart reveal our true priorities, and reveal our imperfections.

@johnZ

Thank you.

Please remember that I said that God the Father should be considered as God of the OT, so there is not a question of continuity between the OT and the NT. The question is one of real change.

In other words is the New Covenant in Jesus Christ really new, or just a warmed over version of the old covenant. I for one believe and I think the Bible backs me up in saying that God the Father did something new in sending down God the Son to die for the sins of the world on the Cross and bring salvation to humankind through the Gift of the Holy Spirit.

I am not against the Law but rather for the gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ. Those who refuse to go beyond the Old Covenant are properly called Jews. Those who go beyond the Old Covenant by embracing God’s revelation of Godself through Jesus Christ and accepting the New Covenant of justification by faith in Jesus Christ alone are properly called Christians.

Legalism, whether it be Jewish or Christian or other, wrong. Relativism, whether it be Jewish or Christian, or other, is wrong. The Bible shows us that salvation comes when we love God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength and our neighbor as ourself.

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@Eddie

John 1:17-18 (ESV)
17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.

All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him. (Matt 11, Luke 10)

but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.” (John 10:38)

that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you. (John 14:17)

Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? Rom 6:16.

@johnZ

Hebrews 1:1-4 (ESV)
1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets,
2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.
3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.

The Letter to the Hebrews was written by a Jewish Christian, that is a person who converted from Judaism to Christianity as did almost all if not all the writers of the NT, to other Jewish Christians. These people were in a difficult situation. They were rejected by their Jewish kin folk because they were Christians and were persecuted by many pagans because they were Christians.

They were tempted to return to their Jewish roots to relieve this isolation. Their rationale was simple. Judaism was approved by God, so returning to Judaism must be also approved by God. The author of Hebrews makes the case that the Covenant of Jesus Christ is far superior to the Covenant of Moses and it would be a huge mistake to return to the Jewish Covenant.

God used the Mosaic Covenant to prepare humanity for the Covenant of Jesus Christ. However now that we have the New Covenant and know the true nature of God as Trinity it is wrong to go back to the Old Covenant and a unitarian God.

God did not change, but God revealed Godself differently in the OT from in the NT when God revealed Godself through Jesus the Messiah as the Letter of Hebrews says.

The Jews then and now were brought up to believe that they are the Chosen People as found in the OT. They were unable to accept the new Gospel of Jesus that said even non-Jews could be saved. I can sympathize with the Jewish situation as symbolized by Peter on the roof with the vision of God’s offering him unclean food.

However if we truly believe in God and God tells us that now is the time to change from the Old Covenant based on the Mosaic Law in its many forms to a New Covenant based on Grace, we accept the New Covenant of Jesus Christ because we have faith in God.

I do not disagree with a single thing you are saying here. But I would add that the distinction between the two covenants is not as large as some people make it. The new covenant only really makes sense in the context of the old covenant; our failure to keep the old covenant resulted in God making the new covenant, a covenant already promised in the old testament, even in Genesis 2.

In addition, the old covenant was a covenant of love, as mentioned many times in Deuteronomy. Even the old covenant was based on the “heart”, not just on a bunch of rules, as mentioned several times in the old testament. Jesus came not to abolish the law but to fulfill it. While the ceremonial laws were fulfilled and thus no longer required, the moral laws of love were validated by Jesus in the new testament.

And yes we accept Christ on faith, but faith exhibited in trust and obedience, not mere knowledge. Thanks for your soliloquy.

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@Eddie
@johnZ

It still seems that the birth, life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ and the Coming of the Holy Spirit make a huge difference between the Old and New Testaments that is hard to exaggerate.

@Eddie

Eddie,

If that is what you want to do, then set up your topic and do it. As I indicated to Brad previously you have your own agenda so set it up your way instead of trying to take over our conversation.

The problem which I have with your position is that you do not understand the Ten Commandments as a Covenant. If you did, you would understand that you can have only one binding covenant with God at a time, which is what Jesus and Paul understood.

In summary, I would say there is a huge difference between the details of the New Testament and the details of the Old Testament. They are hugely different, and yet, part of the same story, the same message. They are inseparably connected. The validity of the New Testament depends on the validity of the Old Testament. The New Covenant was already in existence in the Old Testament, and the Old Covenant was the basis of the new covenant. Without the old covenant, the new covenant would not make sense. And no one in the old testament was saved by the old covenant, but rather, Jesus shed his blood for Jacob, and Abraham, and Noah as well. The old covenant could not be kept by man, but the new covenant was kept by God, and over-ruled the old covenant. (Hebrews 8). In the new covenant, Jesus actually kept the old covenant… he fulfilled the law perfectly in our place. He paid the penalty that the old covenant said we should pay.

But to understand the new covenant, we need to understand that Jesus did not do away with the law, but rather explained the law as a law of love. And the parts of the law (sacrifices) that pointed to Christ were now complete and did not need to be repeated anymore. But the law of love, love of God and neighbor, needs to be kept, if we are to honor Jesus’ new covenant. And Jesus explained how this law of love was manifest in the Ten commandments. And I would argue, not only in the ten commandments, but also in the laws of taking care of your animals (preventing dangerous animals from harming), the laws of rape and sexual behaviour, of honest weights and measures, etc. Since Jesus took our penalty, we also have the opportunity to be merciful to law breakers, but we cannot argue that the commandments are no longer relevant to our lives. If we disregard these commandments, then we dishonor God’s new covenant, and disrespect Christ’s sacrifice for us.

@johnZ

John,

Yes, Jesus paid the price for our sin and the sin of the whole world. Furthermore believers are not saved by obedience to the Law in any way shape or form. Believers are saved by faith through the New Covenant of Jesus Christ made and sealed on the Cross and the Resurrection and through the Holy Spirit.

You are right in that the Jews of the OT were saved by faith, but this is revealed after the fact. They are saved because they trusted in God the Father and tried to keep God’s Covenant. However after Jesus it is not clear (to me at least) if trying to keep the Old Covenant is good enough because that denied the validity of God revelation of Godself through the Trinity and the New Covenant.

Jesus said, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” God does not expect the Jews of the OT to know Jesus, because He was not made known. However God, the Trinity, expects us to know Jesus and to love God, the Trinity with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength and to love others as ourselves, or as Jesus Christ loves us. We are saved not by our obedience to the Law, but by our faithful relationship to Jesus which is made possible and evident through the Love of the Holy Spirit

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